What is the reason that the reversals window is so long in this game?


#1

I was thinking the other day about about why would they make the reversal window this huge ? If they have done it to help new players then wouldn’t an easier links would be a better solution for them ? Because as you knows combos are always more attractive to new players that playing defense .

The only semi-logical reason i can think of is the net code , they figured that links are mostly muscle memory so they would be easier to time in a laggy environment that a reversal .


#2

I don’t know, it’s shitty game mechanics, in most fighters that i’ve played you don’t lose 60% of your life because of a dropped combo or an unsafe blockstring. I admit it is still the player’s fault for missing combos but mashing Ultra between links can lead to ridiculous damage.


#3

So that scrubs can mash uppercuts and feel like they’re good, when really they’re not. Just another case of making the game easier to play for new or casual-level players.


#4

The thing is, if Capcom wanted to aim at scrubs, half the characters wouldn’t have 1 frame link in their BnBs.


#5

Would not any mechanic would aid a “scrub” yet not also aid a pro even more so than the scrubs because the pro know how to use tools better anyway?


#6

Apparently jumping in on your opponent’s wakeup was viable at one point in time, because of the small reversal window. (Was it?)
Now that the window is 5 frames(?) only safe jumps and certain crossups are really acceptable…

Easier links would probably have been better, but… I suppose it puts the stress on the player on offense (who will probably be the more experienced player?)

If you’re a veteran, you’ll be landing hits, and if you’re new, you won’t. But, on defense, you can easily sneak in a reversal into a dropped combo or blockstring…

… But, if you’re a veteran, you rarely drop your combos or do unsafe blockstrings without reason (i.e. frame trap) so… it really just hurts new(er) players who happen to be improving.

Yeah, I don’t know why either.


#7

I agree. But Capcom has no idea wtf they’re doing. Not to mention SF4 was developed by DIMPS, an outside developer, and not internally.

If they wanted to actually market it to casuals, you’d do the smart thing and place less focus and attention on combos, and put them on fundamentals (i.e. SF2, the game that made them big in the first place)

Yes, which is why you also see guys like Daigo mash in between attack patterns whenever he feels like they’re going to have gaps in their pattern, and also between opponent’s super or ultra animations. Game is bad yo.


#8

A 5 frame window isn’t much, considering the game runs at 60 frames per second.

Kappa.


#9

I read somewhere that 1 frame links were meant for pro players.


#10

Yeah but why would Capcom say that if some characters even most basics combos are 1 frames links ?


#11

#12

They did in a game called SFxT where footsies were 10 times more dangerous and important and less gimmicky without focus , a game where a successful anti-air can lead to 400+damage . In SF4 the risk vs reward in linking is just not worth it for many people , especially give how powerful the throw game is .


#13

See: Haitani.

Although he’s good.


#14

It had potential, but that game wasn’t made for new players either. It makes zero sense to introduce so many mechanics into a game, and then market it as a game for newcomers. It’s ridiculous. Good game design is all about simplification of GOOD game elements, not adding more of them.

And that game really didn’t have footsies. It had hit confirms hidden in the form of footsies, and an anti-air leading to 400 damage is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of. A bad read on a jump-in is a mistake, but it doesn’t warrant that level of punishment.

Risk v. reward system is skewed in both SF4 and SFxT, just in different ways.


#15

It’s not like SF2 is easy in terms of mechanics.
That game is hard as fuck.

And guess wrong on a Ken jump in in that game and guess what.
Half your life down the fucking drain.

SF4 isn’t a bad game, it could just be better like every other Street Fighter game.
I’m sad Ultra didn’t add anything new or made really radical changes that warrant the new name.
I mean making uppercuts not fadc’able on block is a step in the right direction.

I would’ve preferred them doing so much more though, like forcing stand when you grab from crouching position to get rid of that retarded option select, maybe actually tighten the input leniency so a lot of option selects disappear (I prefer playing the game and not the game playing the game for me), scaling down the damage on some raw ultras, making fireballs hit like 30 damage harder and making links easier for everyone not just Evil Ryu.
I don’t give a fuck about red focus though and I feel it makes the game even harder to grasp for new players and I don’t think the new version will revitalize the scene.
Gonna stay the same size as before and slightly shrink over time until Capcom decides it’s time for a new SF.


#16

because having a move not come out when you tried to do it is a big turn off for a lot of new players.
it gives them a sense of control over their character and a sense that when they’re losing there’s actually a way out, which keeps them playing.
unfortunately we’ve been saddled with the fallout from that decision for 5 years now with no end in sight.


#17

It’s actually very easy in terms of mechanics. What mechanics are there? 6 buttons, 2-3 special moves, an arcade stick. That’s about it. From a casual standpoint, extremely easy to pick up and play, hence it’s booming popularity. Even at the highest level, the mechanics are few and far between, but it all comes down to nailing perfect strategy along with execution of very BASIC moves.

And at no point are you required to ever learn a combo in order to even begin to consider playing competitively. Combos are few and far between, and are the reward for having good fundamentals first and foremost.


#18

Sorry man I meant execution.


#19

The execution of special moves and normals is difficult? Not much more than learning how to plink. crouch tech, option select, do link combos, 1-frame combos, and learn safe jump setups.


#20

They purposefully put in 1 frame link combos to appeal to the pros. Essentially closing off the game to casuals. However then they have grand canyon size reversal windows, sloppy input shortcuts (so sloppy that we’ve had high level players ask for motion changes for certain supers and ultras, cause the wrong move comes out), the ultra comeback mechanic so even if you suck u can make an easy comeback, and other retarded things. So what does that lead to? No one being satisfied, and a game that doesn’t know what it wants to be.