What is the reasoning behind using judgement in tournaments?


#1

This has bugged me for a while. Whenever I check a 3s tournament thread, I almost always read:

“In case of a tie/double k.o., in-game judgement will be used”

This rule is used almost all the time, and in legit tournaments. I’ve never understood why.

I think 3s players universally agree that the grading/point system in 3s is an extremely inaccurate and flawed way of determining a player’s performance and skill level. I’m sure Kuroda gets D’s and C’s all the time, especially using Akuma (a character who is much harder to get a good grade with than say, Ken or Makoto). This system really has nothing to do with how well the players perform in the match. So why do we use judgement to determine who wins a double K.O. in a tournament match? Neither player earned the win, yet one of them is still deemed the winner. To me that doesn’t make any fucking sense.

Isn’t this the same community that advocates the whole “play to win” concept, no matter how cheap, basic or repetitive a strategy might be? According to that concept, it shouldn’t matter if your performance is an E++, it should only matter whether your strategy is successful against your opponent. Thus, something like judgement (which is based on the game’s grading/point system) should never have any effect on the outcome of the match.

In the most balanced tournament rule sets I’ve seen, anytime an unintentional error, dispute or blunder occurs where the outcome of the match is interefered with… the game/event is scratched, and replayed. So when it comes to judgement, why don’t we just scratch that game and play another to determine the winner?


#2

noooooooob


#3

It takes almost two minutes for a Judgement call to happen based on a draw, and maybe over a minute for a Double KO. It could also potentially take up to six minutes to finish just one match(counting timer freezes off Supers). Setting up a “sudden death” round would probably take more time and effort than one would think, especially in a tournament with a large turnout. Since there’s no “sudden death” in 3S, I’m guessing tournament organizers would rather have the winner be determined by a “coin toss” if both players were to actually play to the point where Judgement is required.

If there’s anyone to blame for this, it’s the developers…

P.S.- Kuroda got an A on Ricky Ortiz at SBO3…


#4

I’m trying to look at this issue from a standpoint of making a balanced tournament rule set, not the standpoint of a tournament organizer. All you’re doing here is defending tournament organizers’ lack of follow through. The purpose of tournaments—especially the major ones with bigger turnouts and higher stakes—is to determine which player performs the best, not to make everything run as quickly as possible.

I understand that it’s much harder to manage time in arcade tournaments because you usually only have one or two cabinets to play on for the entire time. But you make it seem like if judgment weren’t enforced, then it would cause several delays and throw off the schedule of the entire tournament. I’ve been entering 3s tourneys for a while now and I’ve only seen the judgement rule come into effect twice. If judgement weren’t enforced, the scratch & replay rule would probably only come into effect a few times (at most) in a single tournament. If time is still that much of an issue, then it’s almost certain that the problem lie somewhere else (starting way too late, seeding and running brackets on paper, nobody gets to their matches, not enough hours designated for brackets in accordance with the turnout, etc.)

I am a noob, but I’m pretty sure I could still beat you. MM $10 3/5 @ Denjin?


#5

reeeeeaaaaaaally? i am so down. to be fair ill give you a chance to back out because i am more than just willing to pocket some free moneys.


#6

reading back im not sure that made much sense. what it means is i agree to your challenge.


#7

judgement :C


#8

So does that mean nobody has a decent argument in favor of enforcing judgment in tournaments, besides what aku said about tournament organizers sucking balls at time management? It’s only enforced to save time and prevent delays? Well that just reinforces my original thoughts about how stupid and unbalanced the rule is then. It just seems like an old rule that’s always been there and was never changed because nobody ever questioned it.

One character, double blind pick? Can you go to Denjin next Fri the 19th or Sat the 20th? Those would be the best times for me.


#9

the judgement is used because we are lazy… /endthread


#10

I will answer your question.

Judgement is used because we love 3rd Strike and judgement is part of 3rd Strike and put into 3rd Strike. When you love something, you love everything about it, not just picking and choose what to love and what not to love.

In the end, I believe in the 3rd Strike gods, they will choose the player that deserves to win the most from the game played through judgement, that is why judgement is used. It is part of the game.

If I lost Tougeki to judgement, I would not be mad or ask for a rematch, I accept the fate the 3rd Strike gods bestow upon me.


#11

beautiful


#12

Argue all you want about tournament organizers sucking for enforcing Judgment. The fact of the matter is that it DOES take time, and not many organizers or players have the patience to be willing to…

  • …recreate the match up to that deciding round…
  • …start another match…
  • …have the players or whoever else set it so that both players are set to a KOF/VF-style sudden death round…

…because both players got to the equal remaining lifebar for Judgment, meaning they both did played the best they could and came out equal. Like I said, if you really want to blame anybody, it’s the developers for making the “copout move”.


#13

How can you guys not appreciate judgement and leaving it to the 3rd Strike gods??? That boggles my mind, I think judgement is the sickest way to win or lose.


#14

Well, if we’re going to consider the symbolism behind it(lolol), then yes, it is the sickest way to win or lose. If Ricky Ortiz beat Daigo at Evo2K3 via Judgment, that would’ve been an incredible finish. But they had to restart that round, and you could TELL Ricky just totally lost it mentally after that.

I’ve lost by Judgment during a match against BBHood01 at my first C3(my first tournament using Q), and I took it well. I mean I played my hardest against his Yun and he did own me for most of that match(it was only one match of 2/3 though). Plus, the crowd usually goes nuts for Judgment calls. How often do you really see it, anyway? :slight_smile:


#15

Judgment is entertaining, but SILLY. I remember when I won that way against a superior player, he mumbled “bullshit” and that was funny, but it wasn’t even a tournament. The developers were kinda cheap since you don’t even get to play 4 rounds like w/ old SF2 if you got a double k.o. I think if you kept double-ko’ing, you’d BOTH lose your money though :stuck_out_tongue: Judgment is anti-climactic, and that’s what’s bothering Mio, for sure! I actually keep imagining someone like Kuroda losing at SBO cos he SNEEZED during a crucial point in the match :open_mouth: Maybe I shouldn’t bring this up, cos when I mentioned it at the arcade the 1st time, a player sneezed between rounds RIGHT AFTER I said it…THE HORROR…


#16

I get it. It’s supposed to build tension because it’s meant to be like a boxing match where they score each player based on how he played ACCORDING TO THE ENGINE’S RULES. But in all practicality, we know that a playstyle that nets you an A or would help you win a judgment isn’t always a practical one. I think it’s basically a time management thing on the part of the organizers but if I were to lose hat way, you can bet I’d be mighty pissed.


#17

At a recent tournament I had to fight a guy in SFIV. First match, final round: draw game.
Then at this same tournament I had to fight him again in SFIII. First match, final round: judgement ! We just stood there looking at eachother speechless, then laughed it off. (he won the judgement by the way, but I didn’t care at that point, still baffled about what just happened).


#18

noob lost to the same guy twice


#19

Time constraints.

That ppl don’t care about the game as much anymore doesn’t help either.