Considering no two Gouken’s are alike, I want to ask you.
What is your play style with Gouken???
Considering no two Gouken’s are alike, I want to ask you.
What is your play style with Gouken???
Shifty shady shiesty…
Seriously though, I’ve come across defensive Gouken’s and Rush Down Gouken’s. I’m just wandering what is the philosophy for the other Gouken users out there.
I’m trying to be more offensive. When you press the action it’s a lot easier to predict and catch people with the kongo. Personally when I get too defensive with any character I start over thinking and start making decisions a bit late and eating basic stuff that I can punish or block.
First I build meter with fireballs. Then RTSD and mixups galore
Generally defensive, unless I can manage to push you into the corner.
I start off trying to zone the person out with fireballs until I either push them into a corner or get an untechable knockdown. Once the conditions are met, I switch to offense and go for mix-ups. Generally I want to keep the pressure on for as long as possible in order to get in a BnB combo. If continuing the pressure becomes too risky, I back off and go back to zoning. I do not like to stay within footsie range for too long because some of Gouken’s pokes are slow and can be countered with a lvl 2 focus if you get too predicatable.
im definetly more defensive in ssf4. lots of fireball zoning, i like to use mp ( fake fb) to bait out jumps. most of the times i use my meter for ex demon flip grab i barely dive kick anymore its blocked a majority of the time, oh and i also use ex demon flip to escape pressure at wake up. Other than that its bait and punish, im trying to use counter hits setups in blockstrings but mashing dp beats it most of the time.
With Gouken iam trying to be unpredictable, which isnt that easy since you are playing with Gouken ^^.
So iam always changing from defensive into offensive game. It pays off but you really have to know when the right moment begins.
You all have some interesting replys.
I’m slowly trying to transition into a rush down / counter hit Gouken which is getting me killed right now, but I know that it’s very doable. I’m still playing on my x box controller believe it or not and I know my style will change when I use the stick. Maybe I’ll be better with the pokes that way… hhmmmm
rush down is risky since with gouken its taking alot of risk cuz frame-wise theres holes everywhere. i can see counter hit setups apart of gouken’s game its just hard to see results if you try it in match more than likely the opponent will dp. but it does work not only to add damage but mindgames, if you get you opponent not to mash while your doing something gouken can get away with alot more. Desora’s gouken has some crazy poke> fireball pressure, but they werent safe its was more about mindgames than it being safe to do.
I guess, but there are ways to rush the opponent down for free the most part. For example EX Palm > Palm can be followed up by a meaty hado > EX GF dive kick > more pressure. Rush down can be risky no matter who you are using, one wrong read and you could lose life. I mean you have block strings and etc. but, nothing is just guaranteed.
A well timed dive kick still beats or makes srk whiff, a faux safe jump encourages whiffed/blocked dps, and EX GF at point blank range still beats out the shoto’s options if it’s a non reversal. You can also cross up j. lk and stuff the reversal srk.
Desora has a serious poke game. But one of the flaws that I’ve seen if you use cr. mp > lp hado at close range you can get punished with a reversal after the cr. mp b/c it’s not a combo. At far range it works but at close range a reversal will beat it, but it won’t be cr. fp > lp hado b/c it’s a combo so the reversal won’t initiate. It works out in block strings very well b/c of the spacing that Gouken gets as he pushes himself out. All of Gouken’s normals except lone cr. fp are safe on block as well, so we do have the option of poking and reacting to see how we can counter hit. I consider that as rush down as well since you are the agressor. I just find it hard to just sit back in the corner and just let the opponent control the match as I just block away and hope that they miss a move (once they’ve become the agressor you may have to wait for an opening to regain control of the match though).
Any one with an srk type move, Dee Jay, T-Hawk, and Zangief all have their own specific rush down or pressure do’s and dont’s since it’s a little tougher for Gouken with that group. The rest of the cast are suspect to safe jumps and/or cross ups > mix ups b/c their wake up can be compromised one way or another so I feel like why not rush that group down.
gouken isnt really like other characters that can rush down cuz you cant really control the aggression with jabs, youd have to cr.mp > hado, mk > hado, cr. hp> hado, yeah its not safe in between but even if they block hado i think its +2 on block. thats the best your gonna get on block with gouken unless you charge the fb. i think mixing in regular pokes with no fb or spamming fb really adds mind games. maybe playing rush down to get the lead then sitting back is good but just straight aggression 100% of the time will probably do more harm than good.
Gouken’s rush down isn’t the same as the other characters rush down. Again, every character that can be safe jumped, can be rushed down for free with Gouken, then you have certain rules for the other group.
You have several options after a blocked dive kick including a 3 frame move. Grab. If they have a srk or reversal type move you either block string out, or pause between your strings to bait the reversal and punish. Not to play theory fighter here but for example. You get this rush down after this combo.
Cr. FP > EX Palm > mp/hp Palm > meaty hado > meaty dive kick/grab/slide. With dive kick you get all of your option selects, if it is blocked you can tick grab, string out, GF loop, pause and bait, or focus fish etc. etc.
You can also safe palm a meaty hado on their wake up > block, counter kongo, ex GF, or FADC. etc.
You also have st. mp > lp/mk hit confirms up close and they can mix in as well. Mixing this with your pokes (including hado) can provide you with a ton of pressure to your opponent. And then you have cr. fp as anti air when they start jumping in.
Gouken def. has some tools to apply pressure to his opponents, but I don’t think anyone should play aggressive the entire match but you do want to control the flow and spacing. I think Gouken does that pretty well, especially with walk up and cr. lk.
the meaty hado on knockdown is good and all but it takes good spacing and timing has to be on point for it to work i dont practice enough. Also gouken’s demon flip mixup is to slow without the overhead ive had people dp on reaction trying to do slide, his grab is really good deceptively large range but without anything to back it isnt as good. And they did change the frame advantage on the charged hado, maybe that can be used in his corner game cuz i dont see much use for the extra frames anywhere else.
I would def. recommend learning the distances of his safe palms, they will mostly be a light or medium punch version, this can also lead to a FADC > whatever for you for added pressure. To get a good idea of the type of spacing you need, try punishing a blocked Blanka Ball with lp palm and that will be the general spacing more-less.
I use slide very very sparingly. You can slide after a hp hado or if they throw a fireball you can sweep their feet before they recover. Works very very well on Ken.
I’m not to sure about the charged hado, since it’s really not too much you can do after they block it except if they are in a corner. At mid screen you can full punish a few characters though, like Seth, Sagat, and Abel. Good luck getting that to work though.
His EX GF Grab after a blocked hado is very fast and if you did it as a meaty you will catch them on their first or 2nd recovery frame. You just have to make sure the fireball hit’s first so the GF can auto track properly or you will be out of range and/or only get slide.
If you are using mk/hk GF as a cross up it can prove to beneficial and make srks etc. whiff so yo u can punish, and you have the element of getting a cr. roundhouse and walking up to point blank rande and EX GF and go from there.
Primarily on non-srk type characters you can jump in with d+mk and use that as an over head. If you think about it, in Vanilla Gouken had 3 over head attacks, with the nerf he is down to 2. It sucks b/c his mix up lost some properties, but the fact that it can be blocked low gives you some extra frame advantage that wasn’t there before.
His Focus attack is very very good as well, if you can maximize it correctly. He reaches level 2 pretty fast and that can lead to BIG Damage.
I’m not saying he is a pure rush down character, but you can play with him very aggressively as long as your block/tech/bait game is on point. You will find this much easier to do vs. characters w/ srk’s vs. those with srk’s. For those, it becomes a guessing game and one missed srk can spell BIG trouble for your opponent.
The only thing you really have to consider against Gouken is you can safe empty jump him and it will beat any of his reversals or counter attacks, so you have to know the timing of that. Alot of people do that and option select you on your wake up with a crouch tech, but that’s another story within itself.
I guess I’m just trying to get better defensively and offensively to where I rather be very close - midscreen vs. staying full screen and just spamming hado’s and praying I guessed right, or that they couldn’t find a way around my hado. Nothing is wrong with playing Gouken like that, but if that is all that you have then you will have a lot of trouble with someone who gets in close on you.
Oh yeah, vs. Blanka cr. lk and cr. lp work very very well, when he’s doing that hop around shit. If only Gouken could jab into whatever LOL.
d+mk overhead is retarded if gouken regualr jump and demon flip looked similar it would be a different story but when you see a jump in you either gonna hold back or anti-air and f+mp i wish they made it better i would use it more often, you can only combo on counter hit and its like a 1-2 frame link. I guess it comes down what you can threaten you opponent with, demon flip overhead lead to big damage and stun and it put people on the spot to make a choice quickly now it seems like capcom wants gouken players to slow down and play defense instead of going for mixups.
Gouken in ssf4 is certainly less versatile than he use to be, he feels flat, one dimensional. And your so damn right about staying back and throwing fbs all day that what i feel like i have to do with gouken now and it got really boring. Staying in close with gouken is harder than staying away but its should be learned.
It’s all about the timing for when it hits. You aim it to hit them in the feet like a safe jump, over head properties still apply if they block dive kick low.
You will find this set up after a cr. roundhouse. Time it as a safe jump and there you have it. In fact, you can combo to your bnb’s from there.
I think you need to get on line with the other Goukens here, when we play endless and tourney. You can see a lot of different styles and dirty tricks.
It depends on the character I’m fighting. Say I’m fighting gief or Hawk for example, I’m gonna try to zone the shit outta them and when gief goes for the green fist or hawk goes for the condor spire at close range I neutral jump HP->S.HP-> EX palm->MP/HP palm. Now they are in the corner and I can have my fun with them.
Most other characters however I try to be as aggressive as possible. However when i’m fighting someone who knows what they are doing(i.e no flowcharts) this gets me hurt so I have to chill for a bit and wait it out. Maybe throw a few hadou’s out there to bait a jump in and EX tatsu them or if they block it I do an EX DF/GF grab, kick…never slide. most of the time I can neutral jump whatever they try and do or focus and punish.
…yeah thats my style in a nutshell.
aiming at the feet is hard not just cuz if you mess up the spacing you can get punished but your opponent can move and mess you up also. plus you can only d+mk at the peak of your jump its the same everytime it would be cool if you could dive kick anytime during your descent. but im gonna try that cr. roundhouse setup in training mode maybe that will change my mind about the move.