What makes Guile so low tier?

guile

#1

Pardon my ignorance but im just not seeing it. He was the first person i picked up on 4, and i got very very comfortable with him to the point where its second nature. Now im looking deeper into the game and finding out hes very low tier. What is it that makes him so low tier? I seem to kick ass with him?


#2

His stamina is average - 1000, his stun rate ( 900) is even lower than chun li ( 1050 ) , dan ( 1000 ), cammy ( 950 ), viper ( 950 ) . That makes him equal in terms of stun rate with Dhalsim , Gen, Vega…
He still has only 2 special moves and flash kick is not very reliable. His super is not very damaging and hard to perform when you compare to other supers. His ultra set-up is hard. And there are other things. Thats the case on the sheet, of course when you go to battleground, if you control him well, he can become a beast. His normal moves are variable and useful anyway. For me its like that with guile:
If you play patiently and dont rush anything, if you read the game well, if you punish your opponent when you can, to sum it up if you play him smart youll get a win, if not you have a high chance of loss if the opponent has equivalent skill with you or lower even. Thats not always the case with some characters, lower skilled players can beat you up sometimes because of their characters strength. But as i said, on the battlefield everything is different. Besides guile is the only one who can survive on the battlefield for more than 30 seconds. ( guile win quote 8 )


#3

You have to play damn near perfect whereas most of your opponents don’t in a nutshell.

SRK’s>>>>>>>>>>Flash kick. Priority on this thing sucks.

SB does shit chip damage, and you have to charge it.

You can probably land a full ultra once every 5 matches (when someones whiffs theirs), which also does the same as anyone else’s half ultra. Terrible motion for it nullifies almost all possible setups.

Lots of 1 frame links and little relative reward.

Health is meh, stun meter is stupid low.

And to top it, he does terrible damage overall. Many inches make the mile, but look at someone like Sim, for whom this is also true; he’s got a bunch of other tricks and really good qualities, whereas a Guile has to have extensive knowledge of his own normals to compete on just a decent level.

But he’s still super fun to play. Guess we’re all masochists.


#4

i agree with all of the above.

one thing i have noticed is that guile is very vulnerable on wake up against a good mix up character like chun li/ryu/rufus to name a few. i find myself blocking a huge string of attacks only to be thrown…or trying to guess when to tech throw only to eat a ex fireball.

but the 1 frame link thing gets me the most… for example i played a sagat who was killing me with tiger shots, so i go for the jump in and get a huge round house kick…but the worst part is when I FINALLY GET IN with jump in lk to start my combo string he just tiger uppercuts straight through my combo.

these days i just jump in lk, block and flash kick their uppercut whiff…but i think the fact they should be even able to uppercut is ridiculous in the first place.


#5

Stealing it.:wink:


#6

your welcome to my friend:rofl:


#7

I’m no Guile player, but if any of you think Guile is low tier, in my eyes he’s pretty high. I’ve gotten my ass kicked by him many times. Just my two cents.


#8

i think he’s the absolute middle tier.

he’s good enough to beat all the other mid and low tier characters, i just find he struggles more than some of the other mid tier characters against every one of the top tier characters. the exceptions to this rule are i think he’s a slight favorite against zangief, yet el fuerte seems to be a really tricky match up (from my playing experience).


#9

Thanks for the input, it makes much more sense now. Trying to find a new main, but noone feels as natural as guile does. So i guess im stickin with him, till someone else becomes natural to me.


#10

Tiers really don’t mean anything. So what if you lose? Have fun with it. You’ll get better. I mean, I main Sakura and Dan who are pretty low, but there’s guys that can just spank others with them. Low tier just demands more from the player.

You guys are probably wondering why I’m posting here, I’m just giving my words of wisdom to you all. If Guile feels natural, play him! I absolutely can’t play anyone apart from Sakura and Dan, cause it just feels natural. I’m not the best, and that’s not the point. If you think Guile is the man, then his is, the man.


#11

sigh, how many times does this have to be posted? he is low tier. doesnt matter if in your eyes he is high tier or not

he doesnt do much damage and his “decent” high damaged combos are very hard to execute. he has a very weak wake up game and he has almost no sure way to land his ultra meaning he has no come back ability.

he has ok health, poor stun, does this mean he cant win? no. it just means he has to work harder and play smarter to win matches. but that still makes him low tier.


#12

Guile is my roll dawg!

I might not ever get to the level of Gilley, but you bet your ass I’m gonna try. I’ve picked up some techniques from Lux, Gilley, and a few others from replays I’ve seen. I know I’m not there yet but soon I’ll be a beast with Guile.

None of my buddies can beat me when I use Guile but when I jump online, I get served plenty.

Like you, Guile feels natural; well, Guile and Ryu feel really natural for me. So I switch off. My suggestion is to have two guys that you can kick ass with.

The one link combos are a bitch, but so damn sweet when you pull one off. Another suggestion is to get on a stick, makes a big ass difference. Some people posted how his stun and stamina are pretty low, but I really don’t focus on that. I focus on what my next move is gonna be, and what move I’m gonna do when the other guy fucks up. If you’re one step ahead of the game, the ‘low tier’ stuff doesn’t matter.

Guys like Gilley, Dagger, Lux…these guys are like 3 steps ahead of the game. For now focus on being one step ahead of the guy you’re fighting.

I rape Sagats, Ryus, Blankas, Bisons and Giefs…when I’m in the zone and just playing out of my mind. Guile is a beast! don’t mind the ‘low tier’ bullshit. Besides, if he’s low tier and you beat a ‘high tier’ character, you’re a badass! If you lose, Guile is ‘low tier’.


#13

Guile is top tier bad ass. GO AMERICA! You just need to watch Gilley’s video a few hundred more times.


#14

Thanks for the kind words Mr. Sloppy2nds. I agree with everything that’s been posted but I didn’t see anyone mention his useless new move df+rh (might’ve missed it) while the majority of the cast received practical new moves. I think if Guile has his trademark “comb hair” after he landed an ultra he’d immediately move to at least mid tier.


#15

Playing Guile makes people make songs about you:

http://www.myspace.com/whoisthe52

2nd song


#16

Guile has only 2 moves, both of which need charge so pros will know when you are charging and will respond accordingly. And theres no sure fire way to combo into his ultra. You can go SUPER into Ultra, but then you gotta make the super land first.


#17

Without reading through all of the previous responses, my take on why Guile is considered low end is simply his incredible lack of juggling options. A few characters suffer from it (my other main Honda certainly does), but with Guile’s moves, there were so many obvious juggles that should’ve been actualized that it hurts to see the opportunities in a match. One basic one is for every juggle Ryu and the other shotos have, Guile should be able to flash kick as his follow up… if we trade on a crouching hp or stuffed flash kick, we should have the option to follow up with another flash kick, super, or ultra (basically all the options Ryu has). Instead, we get to watch the op glide safely to the ground and reset their game. Meh.

On another note… does anyone else also feel like charge characters should have a completely different system in place instead of focus attacks? The whole concept of fa seems to put an incredible bias in the hands of non-charge characters and their specials/ultras; in the meantime, to do anything effective after a fadc, Guile users have to pull the equivalent of a piano concerto to get anything done. Double meh.


#18

No joke. And I for one am not that talented of a pianist.


#19

IMO Guile’s FA in-general(range, speed, dash mix ups, and combos after a crumple) is really good and not used enough.

Also most, if not all charge characters can combo pretty well out of a crumple stun.

Guile - cl.hk > c.mp/cl.hp xx sonic boom (c.mp link is much easier than cl.hp)
Honda - Ochio
Balrog - cl.hk > c.lk xx whatever or c.mk > c.lk
Vega - c.mk > c.mp >xx wall dive to izuna drop
Chun li - cl.hk xx lightning legs
Bison - cl.hp > c.lk xx scissor
Blanka - c.mk > s.lp xx ball or jab xx electric

Blanka’s probably got the short end of the stick, but that’s about it.


#20

This