What makes SF4 a "bad" series?


#1

I was just wondering why so many players (who actively play the game) call SF4 a bad game? Mind you, I entered the FGC thanks to SF4 and the past few years have taught me a lot about FGs in general thanks to this series and I have more importantly enjoyed all the moments…

Personally, I don’t see what vets dislike about this series… so many people play it at a competitive level and spend countless hours in training mode developing safe jumps, combos, etc IMO the game isn’t “derpy”, there is a solid game of okizeme, footsie and zoning. The graphics…you get used to them just like practice.

so what’s the beef?
Sorry if this thread has been made before…if it has feel free to delete although I would appreciate some thoughts from people who genuinely LIKE the game and those that DISLIKE it and state why.


Anyone think SF4 still the best fighter of this era?
#2

Nice thread, guy who somehow has never read a single thread or post about the design of the hit 2008 fighting game Street Fighter 4.


#3

People that don’t like it are constantly shitting on it because it gets more attention than their main game. I am getting pretty sick of it honestly.


#4
  • Input shortcuts
  • Skewed risk/reward ratio
  • Comeback mechanics
  • Mechanics that don’t cater to some archetypes like charge and keepaway characters
  • Dumb hitboxes/hurtboxes
  • Full of glicthes and bugs
  • Slow-paced
  • Pointless buffs/nerfs throughout each iteration.
  • Crappy versions of old characters and characters that don’t really serve a purpose
  • Viper
  • Seth

Keep in mind these are not all my reasons, but the stuff I’m hearing and seeing.


#5

Because it’s popular and they don’t wanna be a part of the system!

Probably because It’s not really flashy and fast like marvel or SFxTekken, so it might seem boring to some people and I can understand that.

I have some problems with the game though, I like it, but I think Seth is stupid, among some other things but nothing is perfect.


#6

To add to this

  • Invincible backdashes
  • Dashes in general being shit
  • The way game scales damage
  • huge reversal window

#7

add to the list

  • long input buffer
  • big reversal window
  • the two above created mashed reversals (reversals in old games used to be an art for the reward they granted, now they are free and almost 100% safe with a small meter cost)
  • small blockstun = very few true blockstrings than c.lk/lp xN
  • 3frame DPs
  • The fact that strategies with little thought actually becomes viable (i.e. mashing).

And bear in mind that for now SF4 is my main game. But I have a long history with fighters and some stuff in 4 still irks me to death. In the end SFIV is good for an entry point for players completely new to the genre, but definitely not the apex of FGs. While I welcome the new players, I would like to see them branch out a little into other FGs that will teach them other fundamental aspects of FGs. Like KOF (98/02), VSav, SamSho2, Garou, FFS, RBFF2, LB/LB2, GG, MVC2, XvSF, Arcana Hearts, 3S, ST etc… For this gen (2D) we have KOFXIII and the upcoming Skullgirls.


#8

-Floaty jumps
-Input shortcuts (what’s worst is that the shortcuts/buffers in other fighters like KOF don’t cause any issues whatsoever)
-The way even top players can get away with mashing SRK during a block/hit string because, fuck it.
It’ll beat a missed link, you can FADC it so it’s safe (and GET frame advantage!) and if it works, free Ultra!
Hell, that shit worked for Daigo (I distinctly remember Arturo calling him on that).

Also, SFIV is ugly as sin, and if you can’t see it you just don’t have a good eye for aesthetics. And yes, that shit matters.

And finally, Ono.
Just… fuck Ono.


#9

I’m more interested in hearing why people think SF4 is a good series.


#10

the series devolved after 3S, it’s a step backwards to what Gems Chen calls “Real Street Fighter,” that’s bs. It’s more or less a rehash/remake of a 15 year old game and all of the said things above.


#11

Only problem with SF4 is the huge reversal window. If it was 1 frame most of the games problems would go away.


#12

What I dislike:

  1. Game doesn’t suit charge characters as well, same with zoners.
  2. AA’s trading is ridiculous sometimes.
  3. Reversal inputs are way too lenient.
  4. Focus attacks can be too good for some characters (ex. Fei)
  5. Some characters do not fit in SF, IMO (Fuerte, Viper).
  6. Many of the buffs and nerfs have made no sense.
  7. Comeback mechanics, generally long matches.
  8. Very heavy emphasis on option selects.
  9. The music (few exceptions).
  10. Taunting (serves no purpose other than to troll, give it a true benefit or remove it).
  11. The PP system.

I think the game is decent, a few changes away from being very good. Despite my dislike for it I play it semi-often due to love for Street Fighter. To be fair, there are some things I really like about the game…

  1. Best roster ever, just remove Fuerte, Rufus, and Hakan
  2. Fundamentals are still there to a degree.
  3. The art style is cool, just needs to be a bit more “serious”.
  4. Endless battle lobbies.
  5. Engine emphasizes high dexterity, can be good practice for that.
  6. Matchup knowledge is VERY extensive, almost too extensive.
  7. It has re-vitalized the fighting genre.

This isn’t the type of game I’d play to learn fundamentals, but its fun to play here and there. As much as I sometimes dislike the game I’m still happy it released. With that said, I hope the series returns to its roots for the next iteration. What I’d personally LOVE is a fine balance between rushdown and zoning, the way its supposed to be. And less mashing. I’d also remove any universal systems such as parries, focus attacks, and so forth. Characters should be played based ONLY on their tools, no universal ones. This is strictly my opinion.

The game is decent, its a few changes away from being great.


#13
  • Input shortcuts
  • no air combo
  • no long combo string
  • no x-factor
  • too slow
  • They nerfed Yun </3
    [Kappa]

#14

Because they don’t like it? You’re jumping in the rabbit hole. I’ve heard people complain about every fuckin mechanic SF4 has, down to shit that isn’t even new to SF4.


#15

The real problem with the game is that there’s nothing to do on wake-up vs. a large majority of the cast. I just got a knockdown vs. Viper as Rufus? Cool, now time to do my only viable strategy: a meaty cross up divekick. I just watched Ricky vs. Wolfkrone at Season’s Beatings and every knockdown was a cross up… that’s retarded.


#16

And? FADC is like a roman cancel but while GG is an offensive game and the offense there is boosted by roman cancels in interesting ways, in SF4 the FADC just gives you more reasons to stop attacking and wait for a DP.
It’s not about the mechanics themselves but about how they are done and what’s their effect at the end, combined with all the other rules.
Sol can RC his dragon punch and get a full combo off of it, but do you see people in GG stop attacking and keep trying to bait it? Nope, since you are not scared of reversals in GG because of how the game is built. Problem solved.


#17

The okizeme is pretty derpy. There are also a lot of characters in the game built with anti-footsie/spacing tools, which take away from playing the more traditional characters. I mean it’s funny how so many sf4 players go crazy about “vortexes” when it’s the game play that sf2 players really hated (vega wall dive shenanigans).

[media=youtube]iu9Fnch8JQs[/media]!

he isn’t the only one who feels that way.

MOV from 3rd Strike, about 5 minutes 40 seconds in:

[media=youtube]XF4XIcKG-tk[/media]

juicebox from his twitter said:

That means a lot considering he’s a freaking abel main. 8 Way guessing games. Just do it. That’s what SF4 is.


#18

My biggest beefs, personally -

The walk speeds across the board feel gimped to shit. Walk in > walk out > bait wiff still exists, but, half the time you can’t actually walk into the move you want to baits range because you get hit before you can walk out of it in time. @_@

Though, I guess this counter balanced by the lack of hit boxes in characters’ feet… I’m sure if you’ve played even a moderate amount of this game, you’ve clearly seen your foot touch your opponent’s foot via some form of sweep, or low forward or whatever yet no hit occurred.

Auto correct reversals are stupid. To make a cross up hit ambiguously, it normally has to be done at a height that doesn’t achieve safe jump timing… In other words, if I keep my cross up DP ‘safe’ (using safe loosely, due to the fact some reversals are retardedly fast, to the point they can’t be safe jumped) it’s easy to see what side I’m on, and if I go for a more ambiguous set up it’s just going to get DP’ed, because unlike before, you know longer have to guess out of a cross up when you can just input some stupid shit like Forward, down, down back, downfoward or whatever get a DP on both sides. If you have to guess to block a cross up, you should have to guess to DP it.

The reversal window is absurd, I don’t give a shit about a lenient input reader and input shortcuts, the fact that you can input your DP/Ultra/Super whenever and just get it out when you want it bad. Bad bad bad. Remember the video where Valle DP’ed the start up of a CC activation in Alpha 2? And everybody went buck fucking nuts, and you sat in front of you computer in awe because that was like, impossibly hard timing? Hell, do you remember when you would never have thought to input a dp in between a close strong and crouch strong that had a one frame gap, because you didn’t trust your timing? Fuck that, if you have 50% meter, and you actually block between two strongs, you’re playing the game wrong. Which leads into my next point.

Blockstun, does it exist? I’m mot even talking about DP’ing out of shit, but simply just blockstun… There’s all sorts of retardedly advantageous frames on hits, yet on block you rarely see so much as a +3.

Screen length… it’s huge, and it helps no form of playstyle aside from bad. Zoning characters have a hell of a lot more space they’re forced to control, rushdown characters have a hell of a lot more distance to make up to get in. The only true benefactor is the player who wants to shift the control of the match.

Ultras, I feel no need to explain this

overall, it’s not a terrible game IMO, a lot of the annoyances in the system are circumvented in various ways, but, the biggest things to me, are the shitty hitboxes, the gimped walk speeds, the auto correct system and Ultras.

that and the simple fact that like a couple have said here, there are too many characters that just don’t belong in SF

edit: do make note, that while not terrible, I, personally, do not like the game.


#19

I don’t agree with all of it but here’s another interview with Steve Harrison, about 8 minutes in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=358BiBl-wl4

[media=youtube]358BiBl-wl4[/media]

Anyway, moreover on MOV’s complaint on the game, SF4 has good moments when it looks like this:
[media=youtube]cgEyVkQS_ak[/media]

but a lot of times it just looks like this:
[media=youtube]u6Ww0YVGG_A[/media]

which is dumb. whoever gets the first knockdown wins.


#20

Yeah I get that much and agree 100%. I think pretty much all my problems with SF4 are the implementation of concepts and not the concepts themselves.

I don’t mean to discount the complaints, but inviting everyones gripes with SF4 is just bound to get the thought out shit buried in a pile of “Revenge Meter sux”, “moves are too easy”, “fadc ultra is cheap”, etc. It seems like a lot of people are against many of the mechanics in SF4 in any form.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve got my own complaints about SF4 but I get the feeling theres a lot of bandwagon hate too.