What makes someone fall for a frame trap?


#1

I understand how frame traps leave a small gap in your pressure to allow the opponent to begin a move only to get counter hit. I understand they are important for pressure because they convince the opponent to block and let you just do high/low/grab mixup kind of stuff on them.

But why do they press a button? The only two situations I can think of besides them just mindlessly mashing are: crouch teching, and defensive pokes to stop you from walking back in.

But I only really see people talking about frame traps when you are close, after one or two blocked jabs. This leaves crouch teching as the only reason why I think they would would want to press a button within frame trap range.

Can I get maybe 3-5 different situations where someone would press a button and get frame trapped besides crouch teching? I play SF4 and also KoF, and KoF doesn’t even have crouch teching (although trying to tech kind of is still an OS)


#2

I like that this post implies you’ve never fallen for frame traps, hence the need to ask this question–which you pretty much answered yourself. Wondering if you’re legit, or just flexing the leet muscles. So pro. Much greatness. Wow.


#3

I guess at medium ranges frame traps are useful for baiting out moves. For instance, Ryu’s cr.mp->cr.mp is a blockstring, but if you delay the second mp it becomes a frame trap (i think). Since the frame disadvantage is so low, opponents attempting to throw moves have them stuffed, making them throw out invincible moves. Those are usually very unsafe, so you can train the opponent to mash that move, you can stop after the first cr.mp and then get a full punish. I’m pretty new to SF4, so don’t take this as absolute truth tho.


#4

Sometimes you just want validation that your train of thought is correct.

Yes, it’s mainly crouch teching and keepout pokes (if they are not mindlessly mashing). When you go for throw, and they tech, you know that they are ready to be frame trapped- since breaking a throw requires pressing buttons at certain intervals because you can’t react to a throw- so you know they’re gonna be pressing buttons.

If you are applying pressure to an opponent and you are not throwing them, they really have no reason to do anything else (other than reversal, I suppose). They can just hold downback all day, wait for you to push yourself out or use a move that leaves you at disadvantage, and then start their own offense.

There’s also some things like “perceived advantage”, too. Ryu’s cr. MK is -3 on block, but blocked cr. MK into cr. MK/cr. HK will work sometimes because that -3 passes so fast that if the opponent tries to use that advantage it’s already gone. In other terms, they think it’s their turn but that ship has sailed. (I think this is a function of short blockstun- compare Ryu’s cl. MP; also -3, but way more time to react.)


Buffalo, NY- We drink tears as liquid refreshment
#5

Up until recently I’ve never paid much attention to why I get hit in the match. Good job trying to insult someone in the newbie help forum.

If you think I come here to try to prove something I don’t know what kind of person you are.


#6

Sometimes they’re trying to insert a quick jab or light kick in-between pokes. This tends to work best with characters with fast light attacks (e.g. Boxer’s jab, Dictator’s cr.lk, etc…)

But usually? Crouch techs. It’s a REALLY good option-select, since it covers THREE options, which is rare for a single frame input.

Frame traps are basically designed to blow up crouch techs. Now, of course, smart players know how to do late crouch techs in order to more likely block an attack as opposed to eat a frame trap, and still allows them to tech a throw within the later tech frames, but then you just need to delay your frame trap, or adjust your spacing, and it still works. This basic idea works in KOF as well.

And no human on the planet can perfectly react to a throw attempt or a frame trap. Good players know how to minimize the odds of getting caught, but it’s still a mini-guessing game up to a certain extent past the level of being able to react to a deep walk-up attempt.


#7

This actually helped clear up what the heck a frame trap was for me :smiley:

Question, I see some Ryu players sweep opponent in the corner, whiff a DP, then EX tatsu and somehow get the opponent and hit them with Ultra.
What exactly is happening here? I was under the assumption it was some sort of frame trap (aka opponent thinks after whiffed LP DP they have time to punish but EX tatsu beats out their move)

If my assumption is true, in what situation would it be NOT safe to do that? (vs reversal DPs I’m assuming…)


#8

EX tatsu is considered airborne so it can’t be thrown and it is low invincible so it will go over low moves which come out via crouch tech. A lot of moves are like this and can be used in the same way to bust throw escape attempts completely. Evil Ryu f+mk, ibuki f+hk rose s.mk…and the various from air moves that work the same way rufus IAD Mak IAT cammy EX cannon spike.


#9

habits.


#10

Because they get baited into it, either due to lack of match-up experience, of because their opponent actively did bait them. In both cases, it’s all about making your opponent think that they can poke, when they actually can’t.


#11

They whiff a DP to build a little bit of meter before going into their next attack. It’s safe, and still gives them time to go for a post KD option, so why not? Meter is extremely important in SF4, and every bit counts.

The EX tatsu thing is sort of a frame trap. But instead of a normal move, you use a special move. EX tatsu works very well because it’s considered airborn, meaning it will go over low attacks, and standard crouch techs are all low pokes. So the opponent wakes up, does a low attack, Ryu does EX tatsu at the same time, and they get blown up.

And yes, reversal DPs will generally beat what we call ‘meaty’ attacks, which are are attacks timed in such a way to hit your opponent while they’re getting up. But reversal DPs are also unsafe on block unless you spend meter to FADC it, and even then, still potentially unsafe, especially in ultra sf4. So it’s a mind game at that point.


#12

Chill, Winston. I was only half-kidding.


#13

Thank you guys, learned a lot just now