What makes the Guile matchup so hard for Bison?

m-bison

#1

It seems like once Bison corners Guile or gets in, he has free reign. Conversely, Bison has a lot of options to get out of Guile’s pressure easily.


#2

Bison has no way to get in on Guile. He can’t deal with Sonic Booms. Guile can punish Bisons escape options but even if he couldn’t Bison would simply be escaping into a range that suits Guile the best.


#3

As far as I can recall about SF4, Guile can lame out Bison really hard. In this match-up, Guile doesn’t really need to pressure Bison so much, only keep him out.

This is because Bison can’t really do much to punish Sonic Boom. His anti-fireball tools aren’t good enough to punish Sonic Boom on reaction.

EX Scissor Kick has to be done pre-emptively as well as EX Psycho Crusher and if he blocks it from a distance, he can Flash Kick both options for free.

Head stomp can also be used but that move tends to get focused a lot at higher levels of play since it is only a one hit move and Guile can back dash whilst holding a charge and flash kick the follow-up if Bison wants to use it to continue pressure.

Devils Reverse can be used but like Head stomp, he can just focus the first hit. The EX version is more useful but due to the sound cue he makes and the flash, Guile can see that and Flash kick it.

As you’ve mainly noticed a lot of these anti-fireball tools need meter which Guile can somewhat halt Bison from gaining some because of how much trouble Sonic Boom gives Bison without meter.

He either has to get hit by it or block it to gain meter. As connecting his special moves will be very difficult as they’re either very risky to connect with (Head stomp and Devil’s Reverse) or they aren’t very effective at getting through it ( Psycho Crusher and Scissor Kick.)

This turns the whole match-up into a lame-fest as Bison will have problems approaching Guile due to his projectile and the fact that his approaches can be shut down hard by Flash Kick.

The only true positives that I can think of in the match-up are that once Bison gets in, he can apply some pressure to bait out Guile’s flash kick in the form of frame traps and throws.

Bison can also pressure Guile in the corner somewhat as well with Scissor Kicks but that’s about it.

These positives are countered by the fact that good Guile players can recognise frame traps and are good at teching throws. It’s one of the things that good Guile players tend to be good at because of Guile’s risky panic moves without meter.

Tl;DR: In short Guile just has play lame by throwing Sonic Booms and force Bison to approach whereas Bison must struggle against getting through the wall of fireballs without getting flash kicked which will reset the situation again.


#4

Hm. I’m a Guile player and I get punished trying to throw Bison out of his stomps.

Bison’s damage is dramatically higher than Guile’s so while I can land 30 sonic booms, Bison just has to land one confirm to match.

I play a pressure Guile, though, which makes the full screen game different for me without air throw into corner.


#5
  1. Bison can’t deal with sonic booms. ex scissor does not have enough invincibility and ex-psycho is too slow.

  2. If Bison reads a sonic boom and jumps in, due to Bison’s floaty jump Guile will recover in time and can crouch HP.

  3. Most of guile’s normals cleanly stuff bison’s scissor kicks.

  4. Guile can air throw headstomps.

  5. Guile can crouch HP devil reverses on the way down.

  6. Ultra 2 is too slow to react to sonic boom.

  7. Ex-psycho can be flashkicked for free

SO here is the question how does one beat Guile with Bison?

  1. first you need to make the Guile mess up.

  2. If you can bait the Guile into doing a panic flashkick then you can Ultra 1 him for free. I highly recommend using Ultra 1 in this match, you are NOT going to catch a sonic boom with Ultra 2.

  3. lots of frame traps and throws. when you get in on Guile never let him out, If you let Guile reset the situation then Bison will eat sonic boom chip until he dies.

  4. Be patient, Guile has an answer for everything Bison can do. So you are looking for that one spot where he screws up to get in.

  5. You got to completely outplay the Guile player. I have a good friend I play a lot online that has a Guile that is around the same level as my Bison. I lose to him about 70% of the time.

USF4 Hope.

In USF4 Bison will become a bigger threat to Guile and the match should become more doable.

  1. Ex-scissor has 19 frames of invincibility, so now bison can blow through sonic booms if you close and fast enough.

  2. Bison will do more damage, and Guile has less health.

  3. Bison has RFA so he now has a comeback factor


#6

I’ve figured out how to beat Guile. It’s actually a 6-4 matchup.


#7

Guile vs Bison is 8-2, in the hands of a pro player


#8

[quote=“TuesdayAgain, post:7, topic:168943”]

Guile vs Bison is 8-2, in the hands of a pro player

[/quote]

Interesting. Happy needed to tech some throws in that match, which is strange because he’s a notoriously good crouch techer.


#9

[quote=“BigOlePappy, post:8, topic:168943”]

Did you not see how many times he got blown up with the upside-down kick when he tried to crouch tech??


#10

In short the matchup sucks because Bison can’t do jack shit. it has been that way forever and is going to continue in Ultra.

Must have a pocket counterpick for the worst three, all there is to it


#11

[quote=“TuesdayAgain, post:7, topic:168943”]

Guile vs Bison is 8-2, in the hands of a pro player

[/quote]

bison played really bad in this game, you can’t take a set where bison does not anti air guile even once and constantly takes bad gambles also defends very bad as an example to prove that a mu is 8:2. this match was only the player. he played like he was on tilt from the beginning.

that said the matchup is hard for bison because he does not have an answer midscreen to get around lp boom. guile can always throw it and is still able to punish fokusdashes and jumps even if you predict it. only thing that punishes it with a read is an ex sk, but thats unsafe as well. so basically you have no option to push guile to the corner at that range. most bisons try to fight at this range and try to push him to the corner travel time of the next boom, but they obv. get wrecked 8 out of 10 times and blame it on the mu.

i think though that if you stay full 3/4 screen- fullscreen away he’s alot less dangerous. you can absorb booms and he has to walk foreward to get back in range where bison can’t do anything. however when he walks foreward he has no booms, so you can actually fight him midscreen then. you have to be on point with anti airs and make sure you don’t take random hits from his normals. if he just keeps spamming booms you can actually punish them if you read them with ex psyhco and contrary to your options midscreen it is safe if you do it too late, in fact your positive on block and you can apply pressure.

i think if you approach the match with that in mind it’s alot easier to fight guile and it becomes almost 5:5.

[quote=“Spiral0Architect, post:9, topic:168943”]

4button tech, backdash, teleport he just stood there and did nothing.


#12

[quote=“Spiral0Architect, post:9, topic:168943”]

Yeah but I’ve seen Happy crouch tech the crap out of RZR Latif who blows up techs way more than KnuckleDu does