What to do with Yun or Yang?

hakan

#1

So I have been trying to find post-KO setups|mixups for this two without success. What you people are doing once you got them KO?

Yang seems to have a really cheap hitbox… anything I do wiffs completely, I have to wait he completely recovers from the KO so I can touch him with a jumping attack…

In the case of Yun, he can srk anything, but if he stands still my jumping moves doesn’t wiff.


"Time to get serious!" Hakan Match-up Thread
#2

Taken from over in the AE changes thread. You can also move slightly back and do a normal safe jump on both yun and yang, but that’s all I’ve found so far. Haven’t gotten around to testing safe slides on Yang.


#3

I’ve been put through the paces against the twins, and here is what I have found. Hopefully it helps.

-I’ve had some success on knock down of jumping in with medium kick, but jumping so that you land on the outmost of the hitbox. Jumping late can also help, as Hakan looks so slow when he jumps that you may bait them into thinking you are just empty jumping.

-Likewise, attempting to cross them up with J.mk or j.Hk can work depending on how late or early you attempt to jump on them on wakeup. If times right the heavy kick can beat out anything minus Yang’s ultra 2 and and whichever one of them has that SRK uppercut kick.

Side note, I’ve seen a few times now that Hakan’s j.mk and his j.lp have beaten out Yang’s ultra 2. Maybe they were flukes, but it’s something to consider.

-Against the twins, there is no harm in making them make the move. Take knockdowns as an opportunity to get some distance on them, oil up, and make them come to you. Their closing options aren’t the best in the world, as Yun’s dashing punch is punishable on block and Yang’s roll attack shares similar properties.

-If you’re having issues with them jumping and attempting a dive kick on wake up, feel free to just jump straight up and air throw. Jumping at an angle will cause you to take the hit but in most cases a vertical jump can be considered safe if timed right.

-Sadly, oil dive doesn’t work against the twins. But, if you can bait an SRK you can make use of dive and Hakan’s super as they fall. my two favorite baiting tactics are to be as close to them as possible and jump in a backwards arc as they are coming up. if your opponent is scrubby or not paying attention it’ll wiff and you have enough space and time to follow up with either U2 (if that is your ultra of choice) or oil dive.

My biggest Twins advice? Make them come to you. If you feel like you’re getting too much pressure from them, throw them, get oiled, and reset the match.

Also, oil dive cancels into guard position (or as I am calling it, the Coward Dive) does wonders to mess with their minds if they are playing keep away. I’ve caught people in this trick already when they attempt to move in, thinking I’m going to coward dive and instead get hit by the throw. It’s too bad the super can’t be cancelled, though.

Hope some of this helps. If you’re on PSN, check out my replays under the username EyePawd. Might help you.

Cheers


#4

from my person experience…

  • U2 is the untra of choice here. You can catch Yun while he’s doing the lunge punch, Dive kicks or DP kicks. Same with Yang. you can catch him after roll kicks (even if he’s rolling he will not hit you, once he leaves the ground he gets caught) and dive kicks. Also you can catch them while they’re doing the over head (Foward + midum Kick) attack.

  • I was doing S.MP into J.HK after knock down but I found Step low into j.Mk works better.

  • Like Eyepawd said, Conditioning the twins with Coward Dive is awesome.

  • I find that a lot of online twin players are doing HP palms, not only to build meter but from full screen to almost full screen, it stops HP slide. Bait them out. Guard position, and inch forward to get to the point so you can Rocket them (assuming your oiled) or even Oil spin drive (HK version).

  • Supers. If you are oiled (and you should be), Genei Jin tickles. If they are going “sayan” (as I call it) with out a combo, Find your spots where you can attack. Most Raw Genei Jin users want to Lunge, so thats an easy O.C.H or slide. If they are going Sayan inbetween a combo and you have health, do not fret, nor panic. let the “show boating” go on and when they’re done, focus on regaining the momentum back in your favor. Remeber… oil = GDLK for ever 5 hits they do, you can do in 2.

Seiei Enbu. Remeber that Yangs is totally different then Yuns. Remember that the Shadows attack as well. Find your openings to punish. also which Im seeing now. DO NOT FALL FOR THE SHADOW FOCUS ATTACKS!!! They do not hit you! I seen several Yangs do a FA, then Back Dash and the shadow does it and I fell for it once. Also, stay out of the corner when Yang has super, people will try the “tokido combo” so if you stay out of the corner, your good.

  • what will seperate a bad / scrubby twin player from the good ones is the command grabs. A lot of people dont know it yet but command grabs from the twins is a bitch. while they are pressuring you, you think that your gonna get normal grab, thus us doing tech. grabs (lp,Lk,Mk) to counter. Instead of that, I am using F.HK now. If they’re trying to grab, it techs. Command grab, it knocks them down.

  • be wary of Yang’s Raishin Mahhaken (U1) I play Yang (as back to bad match ups) and people think U2 is a good AA, but Raishin Mahhaken is good as well, especially on Hakan since he jumps low.

  • also like adon and ken, when you see Yang doing Mantis slashes and he FADC after the second one, Oil Rocket. DO NOT DO so UnOiled.

  • oh and another thing. you can catch Yun after he does MP, Fp or ex version of his shoulder move with Lp Slide.

I’m done for now.


#5

I’ve found that twin’s players can be fairly prone to basic throws due to the fact that they may drop their punching strings after a block. Quite a few times I’ve been able to interrupt their combos with a throw after a block because of a delay of some kind. This has happened against a few different players so I’m thinking it’s easier to do than not.

Also: Fireball tactics work for a fullscreen twin building meter. EX oil slide does a body good.


#6

Oh yes, I noticed this and forgot to mention it.

What EyePawd means is that the Palm the twins use to build meter is actually a PROJECTILE, so ex-slide will beat it. So even if your close, if they will try to make the meaty palm thingy, do a wakeup ex-slide. Same goes for the super… super HK.


#7

We don’t have a fully fleshed out match up against the twins, but I would consider going U1 against Yun at least. You’re most likely not going to land many U2s on his lunge punches unless it’s random or he’s not that competent of a Yun player. Besides, you should be using safer methods to deal with lunge punches. O.C.H. is just not going to be incredibly easy to land on a good Yun, as his jump arc is pretty low too. I’d rather have U1 to punish any lunge punches and even slightly misplaced dive kicks. There’s a reason why grapplers give the twins trouble.

I honestly don’t know which ultra to go for yang though. It seems like he has much better grounded pressure though, which would make you think U1. But on the flip side, if you had U2 he wouldn’t have any safe method of tagging you from across the screen (DP kick FADC.) That seems like it would let you oil up and he can’t attempt to punish you without taking a big risk himself. Still seems like a small thing to give up U1 for though.

If they’re across the screen doing palms and Yun/Yang doesn’t have a life lead, just oil up or build meter yourself. I think we build meter faster with Dive feint anyways. But keep in mind they have a built in feint for palm, so careful doing wildly unsafe things like EX slide or super on a hunch.

o_O! f.HK beats their command grabs? Are you sure? That’s pretty crazy if it does. But also know that their command grabs are 10/7/7/5 frames on start up. Make sure to throw out a rocket every so often, because it should be dangerous for them to try and play the grapple game with you.


#8

Reading this thread is giving me a fucking headache. Hello everyone, i’m a real live Yun player. I know this is hard to believe, but this match up is hard for Yun and you don’t have to rely on gimmicks to win it. I know, I know, Calm down. I am aware that the general idea is that Yun is “broken”, but allow me to help you fine ladies and gentlement out. o_q.

Divekick is not safe on block…at all. Its -4. What does this mean? Lets think about that…hm…OH SHIT, ALL VERSIONS OF HAKAN’S SPD’S ARE 3 FRAMES. ^_^!!! So, on block? SPD him, its free damage. No, stop trying to combo him and throw him. No god damnit, stop trying to be gimmicky and stupid and just do what works. I originally typed more than this, but this went into my irritation towards the community in general so i’ll just say this. You guys play a solid character, play solid and stop trying to find every retarded gimmick in the book that doesn’t require blocking or being patient and you’ll do fine.


#9

first calm down jeez
second thats false because divekicks are safer the deeper you hit them. yun can jump out of the spd if he holds up.
third when was this about gimmicks? the above posts are what hakan players have to know to win.


#10

C.mp seems really effective against dive kick in training mode. I haven’t employed it in any battles yet, though. Any thoughts?


#11

I think I mentioned before about f.lp being good for stopping divekicks, but this is in open play, when he’s in your face however, then yeah, it’s not so simple.

I hate this matchup, the only reason there’s anything in it for hakan is because he hits pretty hard, im honestly trying to rush the shit out of these gayboy twins when I get a chance, no joke.

@Mordie, i’ll need to try this


#12

Try this with 2 consecutives lk dive kicks, it doesn’t work… the second one hits you.

Basically the same problem as the Rufus dive kicks, not much can be done.

The best counter that I have found, from far s.hp from close DON’T block them crouching since if you block them like this they are safe… so if they are close try to stand and block them just so they have the -4 frame advantage. Then reverse SPD or throw.


#13

Lol, a real live Yun player? That’s insane, no one plays Yun :p.

I understand your frustration, as I don’t really think this is even close to a bad match up either (the jury is still out on Yang,) but take it down a notch. There’s competent people on this board, and your frustration is just a tad overstated.

Okay, so I’ve been practicing against Yang a bit in training mode and I’ve come to the realization that…his wake up is fucking retarded. No joke. The amount of time that he’s invincible if he stays at neutral is ridiculous. I don’t know if it’s going to stay this way, but I would be pretty upset if it did. After slide+press I can back dash, then throw out :hp: slide, and have the entire fucking move whiff if he stays at neutral. I can only get it to hit if I wait a bit after the back dash, and that just makes it so the end of the slide tags him. It’s like he just has this built-in invincible wake up that just lets him wait for any move to be thrown out, then counter with a combo. Fuerte is the only other character that comes to mind that has some invincible frames when he’s at neutral, and even he doesn’t have the ridiculous amount that Yang does.

So yeah…if you knock Yang down and he knows about his invincible frames, just run away. I’m thinking that the Yang match up is just going to be keep away.


#14

:open_mouth:

So its wakeup invisibility I was betting my jump attacks wiffed because a really low hitbox on wakeup… damn this is broken.


#15

After experimenting with it, it seems better against Yun than it is against Rufus. Yun’s dive kick takes little damage, so if you trade, you win by a significant margin. It’s also easier to beat it clean against Yun that it is against Rufus. I played a Yang today and managed to knock him out of his dive kick with c.mp a couple times but also using f.lp and s.mp, depending on the circumstance. Obviously, yeah, trying to get back-to-back dive kicks with c.mp won’t work, though. I’ll keep it in repertoire for now, at least.


#16

c.mp +lk-lp its still the way to go against mixups that’s obious i dont see the problem with yun or yang as it is with Rufus Rufus kick is still superior faster and he got a stronger mixup against Hakan^^ Besides that you could switch with easy to Zangief if necessary he is a monster against them and easy playable


#17

throw after lunges is my main punish and ex cross counter serves to keep them from getting to dive kick happy.


#18

I think I perfer U1 against Yang then I do Yun now. After some test online, I think Im going to use O.Coaster instead O.C.H. I do that because of how Yangs Rush down is different then Yun’s They both can rush down like crazy but Mantis fist and Dragon kicks are more tolerable then Shoulder and Lunge punch. Its just my own personal Hang up.


#19

-sigh-

Ok. Lets go over this.

You are at a huge advantage at full-screen-ish distance from Yun. S.hp dominates everything, as does f.mp. Are you worried about ex lunge for some reason? Don’t be afraid to be ready to neutral jump to punish, or at least get your intent known.

When he’s in your face? Block. Really, what is there to be afraid of? He can command throw you, yeah, but think about that, where does it put you? If you’re in the corner, it takes you out. You eat a little combo, and thats ok. Thats really Yun’s only way to open you up. He has no real crossup save for some setup dive kicks (which, generally, he can’t combo off of). Just block divekicks high, then low till he divekicks again. Wait for an opening. And do NOT be afraid to throw any divekick that hit too high. Divekick is not a legitimate threat. If they space the divekick to hit at your feet, that gives you room to escape the situation entirely with upback or something similar.

Offensively, just safe jump him. It isn’t impossible. It’s slightly hard due to his odd wakeup time, but its definitely possible.

Oiled, parry anything he tries to poke with (lol Yun pokes) with jabs into slide, don’t be afraid to dash under him as he divekicks, and get more loose with rocket usage.

More or less, stop being afraid/intimidated by Yun. You’re a grappler, and by default you have the upper hand (even more so than Gief, I’d argue, due to our superior mobility and normals). Also: He doesn’t hit hard. You can afford to make many many mistakes. He can’t.


#20

@Liquigen,

1 - "You are at a huge advantage at full-screen-ish distance from Yun."
2 - “More or less, stop being afraid/intimidated by Yun.”

This summarizes your expertise on the subject.