What you want to see happen to viper in SSIV

c-viper

#1

OK so lets compile a small list of potential buffs/nerfs we would like to see happen to viper. Nothing is completely solidified in the new game yet so maybe (hopefully) we can catch an ear.

Buffs- Looking at viper in general she is a well designed character with a unique style of rush down, what seems to hurt her is that her game plan involves putting yourself in harms way more often than not, though it has been shown she can play it safe and still win, I believe that it shouldn’t have to be that way. So what is it that forces her to stop her intrinsic rush down? Well it seems that her health is one variable, she can not eat timed (or random) reversals that can lead into huge damage, unlike sagat or gief if she eats one good combo it can take 50% health and force you to play slow and allow your opponent to tighten up, this is a double edged sword here. She not only loses her ability to take risks (which is vital to her game) but the opponent now doesnt need to take any. Other characters game plans do not involve so many risks, if this option is limited she is hurt badly and put into an all or nothing position. Does this mean that they should bring her health up? Well I think it should be raised to a point where she is not devastated by simple combos, I realize that female characters are always going to be lower on the health scale though I dont think it should be the case. This leads me to a list of things that could make her game plan switch from being wild and fun, to defensive and safe while maintaining effectiveness.

Siesmos - Make them faster and less recovery, therefore she can not eat full jump in combos if mistimed

Thunder knuckles - Make the EX version be reversal esque, really short distance invincible and knock down across the screen. Not having a quick reversal that hits a little in front of her makes it really hard to get out of simple pressure problems.( see bison scissor trap, jab traps…etc) SO basically it would take after the fp tk more that the others.

Normals -

C.mk - needs to be faster by 2 frames and hit max distance, no whiffing at her toes. This is her most important poke, give us something to work with!

S.FP/S.FK - need to be viable, she needs to get knockdowns or do damage other than spamming special moves. I say make F+FK one hit and more distance or speed, Make S.FP or S.FK and actual viable antiair, it sucks to have to trade on every antiair attempt when I know they are going to jump, she should have weapons against this. C.FK should not be so slow, I mean you could make it exactly the same just take off frames from its start up.

Jab/Low - Give her a 3 frame jab. Or make it have more range, c.lp is worthless.

Ultra - Take away the Whiff animation…c’mon…really?
Super - More damage, Make it have a use outside of chip or that little bit of health for the kill
New Ultra/super - Realistically it would be cool to have a projectile ultra or something of that nature but what I think would be really cool was an activated temporary armor where her defense goes waaay up for a timed amount, this would allow you to go freestyle without fearing to much damage. Plus it makes sense that with all this tech she has as weaponry that one of her gadgets would be defensive based.

Nerfs -
Honestly its hard for me to say cause no one really complains about her in this manner. Maybe you decrease her stun, change EX siesmo a little, I’m not really sure but to be safe and make her more playable I would not nerf her, and thats not only cause I play her.

Well what do you guys got?:lovin:


#2

I guess this was inevitable…

I guess some of the stuff I’d like changed is the same stuff you mentioned. Slightly less recovery for whiffing a seismo. It’d be nice if Capcom actually decided to stop purposely giving women low health but until then I should be cut a little slack for whiffing a seismo. The recovery I would assume is even worse than a whiffed fireball. Whiffed EX seismo isn’t the wost thing in the world but that costs meter to use all the time. Her regular seismos are a great zoning tool and yes it would be nice if your pet dog couldn’t punish you for whiffing one.

Normals need to be buffed too. 4/5 frame c.LP means she has no way to really continually pressure characters like Rog or safely space herself away from Rog’s stuff (or a lot of other characters’ stuff). c.MK like you said should start up quicker and not whiff at max distance. c.HP should execute quicker so it’d be a more viable poking option. I think Sagat’s c.HP executes quicker than hers. Yeah yeah it would lead to her being an offensive powerhouse but who cares. This game is too defensive happy as it is.

EX burn kick should be safe on block. It really sucks that one of the only options you have to “safely” get out of stuff like Rog pressure gets punished for free if he crouch blocks near you. Why should I always have to waste 2 meters just to maybe get out of pressure? C.Viper’s offensive pressure is strong but her lackluster defensive options don’t make up for it.

This is more a fault of the game itself but there should be more block stun/frame advantage on light normals. c.LK, s.LK, c.MP should not be able to be DP’d between all parts. That’s one of the few ways she has to verify damage off of a low attack and it sucks that you have to verify the c.LK (which is physically impossible) in order to safely confirm damage against anyone who has a DP or meter that allows them to reverse with a super or Ultra. close s.LK is cool but it doesn’t really do much other than space you away from the opponent if it doesn’t combo and can be blocked high or low.

I’d list more but I’m lazy. I’d really like to see her not have such a damned hard time against characters like Honda but I think that’s just inevitable due to the nature of both characters. There’s not really much you can do to make either character better for one another in the matchup without making them more retarted in other matchups. Honda requiring you to know all of Viper’s advanced combos into order to Ultra him and keeping your seismo and MP knuckle zoning to a minimum with headbutts kills a lot of your offensive plan. He forces you to play health lead games and he does too much damage to be able to always win that. Which forces you to play aggressively against him which only works in his favor once you knock him down since he’s a charge character. Even that is easier said than done but whatever. I should just work on the matchup.

Gief’s lariat shouldn’t be so damn dumb either. That move makes Viper free once you knock her down.


#3

New Alt.

Show dem legz.

Other than beefing normals like both of you said, I just feel like she needs a good wake-up option. Back dash doesn’t cut it, HP.TK is fucking grabbable, and without meter, those are her only 2 options. Most Characters take Viper free when they get a knockdown (Honders, Fuerte, Bison, etc.) due to her shitty wake-up options.

If they do keep her with 0 defensive options, then back dash needs more invicibilty frames and less recovery, and give EX. Seismo 100% invincibility 'cause I die a little inside when my EX. Seismo hits the ground and I still get grabbed.

If a fucking shoto can have a 100% Invincible DP, then wtf Capcom? Srsly. Get ya mind right.


#4

Haha. Hell yeah man. New Alt with less clothing!


#5

i would like her to get a little bit more health and have c.mk have less start up frames.


#6

give her the kevin rian DP where he jumps up and dunks the opponent. also give her the kevin rian super where he freezes you with the explosions and shit. just make her kevin rian in general.


#7

I just want 1000 health.

Defense boosting Ultra would be nice, as well.

And take Zangief out of the game. :tup:


#8

I’m down with new alt with less clothing, I could care less about gameplay.


#9

This. Also take Honda out, lol. Well, actually, I like Honda more than Gief.

The only thing I want is like others said, for HP TK to not be grabbable, that’s stupid. Other than that, I’d prefer it if they leave her as it is. I do not want Capcom to fuck around with Viper and water her down ie. give her something good but remove some of her SJC stuff, ect.

And a new alt definitely! There was a cool outfit she had where she was wearing just a top with no sleeves, I want that one.


#10

I’d be down with the high-tech battle suit as an alt, like what we’ve seen from some concept art.

Anything that gets her half naked is cool too.


#11

Port of Fei Longs Focus attack

Seismic hammers that can hit as a crossup depending where they hit you

j/k

It’s be nice if her uppercut didn’t have so much startup you can throw it on reversal timing.

I agree with the regular seismos having stupid recovery time, if they jump it at FULLSCREEN they can still land and sweep for a punish and untechable knockdown, pretty stupid. Also it would be nice it that fierce version got that extra inch of range so you could hit people like Seth and Sim outta full screen fireballs without having to step it, but meh might make seismo chains to godly.

Do something to Ex TK, change it completely, buff it, I dunno but that shit is pretty garbage as is.

Buffing her c.mk certainly would be nice.

I always wanted EX BK to me controllable so it could be a safer wakeup option to get out of pressure. I dunno that might be stupid though. Really anything that would give her a good option on wakeup for escape, costing meter is fine. Whether it be full invincibility on Ex Seismo, controllable ex bk, or turning ex TK into a ex hp TK full invincibility(like Shoto ex uppercuts), something would be nice.


#12

I figure most changes to Viper will be dependent on the changes to other characters and the addition of any new gameplay mechanics we don’t already know about since she’s already a strong, competitive-level character, if not exactly s+ tier. And that’s fine with me, really. It would be nice if some of her more useless normals were tweaked so that they had a point, but I could say the same for a lot of characters.

Seismo recovery is fine, I think. I just look at it as the downside of having a distance attack that can coldcock suckaz all the way across the screen in a flash.

EX TK…I feel like I’m the only one who uses it relatively often. Not a bread-and-butter move that you want to use every match, but it still has plenty of uses.


#13

Buff her health by 100, chop off some frames off her FADC and she’s fine.


#14

I just want a usable focus attack, and hitboxes that actually fit the character model… (can’t count the number of times I see her mk overlapping your opponent and I whiff…)

And if I’m greedy, I’d like the ultra to hit higher up the ground :smiley:


#15

Hitboxes for various burn kicks could use a looking at.

A tad boost in health would be nice.

Do something to ex TK to make it useful, and fp.TK could use some more defensive properties to it.

Make her Super not 100% worthless :stuck_out_tongue:

Nerfs?

Not sure how you nerf a character no one really complains about. All of her moves that are good, are good for legit reasons :stuck_out_tongue:


#16

YES! I like this one. New Alt. with less clothes a definite must - make her look more like the milf she is! lol…

And EX Seismo should have more invincibility. Getting grabbed after it hits the ground has happened a lot and it sucks…but I don’t know if it sucks as bad as being thrown out of Sim’s ultra lol…

I also think they need to change her FA. I can’t really find any practical way to use the actual attack unless the opponent is dizzy. But, like others have said, as long as they don’t really mess with her SJC stuff I think I’m ok.


#17

A few people have said BK’s too cheap and you can spam it, lol, but other than that, almost nobody complains about Viper, they’re usually complaining about Ryu and/or Sagat. I thought people would complain about how many ways she can combo into Ultra seeing as most people complain about Ryu and Sagat for that exact reason and Viper has even more ways of connecting her Ultra than them, although it’s probably because hers aren’t as easy and as safe as theirs.


#18

Yeah we usually call Ryu/Sagat ultras the “easy-button ultras”

All it takes is a jumping MP with Ryu or even a f.HK from sagat and BAM! ultra - no meter used whatsoever

At least we have to work for our ultra setups lol…


#19

That’s pretty much the only thing that bothers me with her. Every other uppercut in the game has throw invincibility except hers. I don’t get it and it’s frustrating. It can’t be linked with anything except in the corner on a grounded opponent and doesn’t do a lot of damage so that’s even more reason to be throw invincible.


#20

Change up the feints so you don’t have to hit 2 buttons to cancel them. Just one extra tap would work. Yeah, that recovery on seismos is a bit much. Increase it so viper can at least block after a whiff, or be able to toss an ultra. If they toss a limb out, the ultra hits, if they empty jump to block, you whiff. So those are the only two options, otherwise no one would be able to get in on viper. Maybe toss out a HP TK, but it would probably trade at best.

I would like to be able to combo a normal seismo. Or at least, let me combo the LP one. Akuma gets a free uppercut after a LK tatsu, but I have to burn a bar just to launch someone? Ergh!