It’s with Cr.HK, My bad.
This entire post is bullshit. What you’re talking about is an option-select. Hit confirming IS reacting to the hit spark/animation. That’s why it’s called a confirm. Hell, the confirms in 3S are very lenient in timing compared to the ones in A3. Impossible my ass. It’s not like you don’t see players confirming c. MK and shit point blank anyway.
Also, Daigo wasn’t tossing those out randomly, he was hit confirming those FP SRKs. He does it all the time when he doesn’t have meter. Lots of players do.
Kyokuji: sorry to tell you, and I’ve verified this the best way I could, no player in Japan hitconfirms c.MK. What Callmeanewb said there was pretty accurate.
What the Japanese do is not try to confirm the move itself, they only execute c.MK when the opponent is standing and they only launch shoryuken/super if you’re standing when the move is about to hit. Also, if you look carefully you’d see they don’t use it as much as a meaty because there people can’t see where the guy waking up is guarding.
[media=youtube]UP21qsIy_Sw[/media] <— here you can see it happening at about 1:58 where mokomokofu guarded low at the last instant and baited the super.
hit confirming is the art of knowing a move is going to hit. I’m saying that the low forward hit spark is impossible to react to, and that everytime it looks like a hit confirm it’s because someone knew based on other information that it was going to hit.
it’s like run in cvs2. If i see someone run I can max range c.MP super with chun because I know that run produces counter hit. Hit confirming and option selects can and do work in collusion. i.e. if i trade my c.mp my super won’t come out or if it whiffs it won’t come out or if i get beat it won’t come out. Hit confirm is basically the art of being confident based on the situation. You won’t see many players walk in and poke with chun’s low strong into super.
If you don’t believe that low forward super is impossible to hit confirm go into practice mode and put the dummy on random guard. record yourself hit confirming ken’s low forward xx super at 80% and i’ll believe you. Heck show me 60% without ever doing a blocked super and I’ll believe you. Fuck, show me anyone doing this and i’ll believe you.
Using other information based on the opponents actions/predicted actions is entirely part of the game; making desicions based on that kind of information is exactly what makes you a better player.
hit confirm according to noob strategy guides and such means linking an attack.
I feel it’s actually seeing the kick and supering from there, but I’ve been told I’m wrong by noob strategy guide readers and I’ve left it at that. If someone says you can’t see when they get hit and react accordingly then its quite obvious they can’t and aren’t worth the waste of breath.
I usually just super reversal chuns cr. strong. And having someone go into a ps2 training mode session and practice something that should be for tournament isn’t fair because we all know that the ps2 is actually a lot faster than the arcade.
also…Ken sucks all of you need to change to chun. /thread
No one is going to argue with that, but I think its confusing to call option selects “hit confirms.” There is something very different between
[*]throwing out a cr.mp at your opponent, and if it hits, supering, and it they block, not supering
[*]throwing out a cr.mk super when your opponent may dash in, such that the super will only happen if it hits them
There is no real reaction with the second one, and its going to be confusing for new players to call those techniques the same thing.
it’s reaction in that you’ve reacted to the opponent’s action. i.e. opponent dashing. reacting to a dash (or predicting a dash) is a hit confirm, it’s just that yuo’ve confirmed a successful super because the opponent is dashing as opposed to the hit spark.
avoiding the subject entirely isn’t going to teach new players anything. showing them how the game works and the relationship between hit confirm and option selects will make them better players instead of twisting the truth to them.
It’s like SGGK. A combination of both is required for the technique to be practical. Wuold you call SGGK a hit confirm or an option select? It’s both working together that make it powerful.
If that’s too complex, we can look at parries. Parries are hidden via. option selects but also provide the ultimate hit confirm.
what abuot crouch techs? crouch techs are option selects but also confirm jab jab short super.
how are you going to tell new players abuot one or the other when all of 3s is based around doing both at the same time?
here’s my last question. Let’s say the opponent jumps and you uppercut. Is that a hit confirm? Of course it is, but it’s based entirely on what the opponent is doing. likewise punishing a dash with low forward super. It’s a confirm based on what the opponent is donig.
And I’m saying you’re full of shit. I can hit confirm based on the hit animation, and my hit confirm isn’t amazing or anything. There is some leniency. You don’t have to cancel “immediately”; if you did, it wouldn’t be a viable hit confirm. Watch people who confirm it. There’s a longer delay before they cancel than when they use it in a combo. With hit confirms, it’s always better to cancel too late than too early. You have a lot longer to cancel the c. MK than you may think.
It’s the same reason why people use c. MK > MK/RH tatsu for hit confirming instead of LK most of the time with Akuma. The former two hit a lot earlier and canceling into LK tatsu late prevents it from comboing properly.
Go watch any video where a Ken player has someone cornered, and they’re constantly weaving back and forth and methodically sticking c. MKs out. What do you think they’re doing? The only reason why they don’t spam it is that hit confirming takes a certain amount of mental preparation.
Of course people tend to go for them when they think they’ll hit, but it isn’t guess work. If you’re option-selecting it or you’re guessing – even if it’s a very educated guess – it’s not a hit confirm. Predicting a dash isn’t confirming shit. You’re just assuming you know what they’re gonna do. By that logic, psychic DPs are also hit confirms, and they’re very clearly not. No matter how well thought out.
What I will grant is that some c. MK confirms are not based just on the hit spark/animation. It has more to do with watching for movement as you stick the normal out, but plain old animation confirming does exist. Good players use a combination of techniques – anything you can do to make the process easier on yourself. The one I just mentioned is probably the most often-used.
Buffering the first :d::df: as you c. MK also helps a ton because you only have to worry about confirming the last :qcf:, which takes a lot less effort and lets you delay the super better.
If I’m not scouting for movement, I don’t look for hit sparks. I just look for the reeling animation, or if it’s a low confirm, and I see them still standing after I stick it out, I cancel.
If everyone was relying on guess-work and option-selects like you suggest, we’d see a lot more flubbed cancels in high level match videos, and a lot fewer c. MKs stuck out, but they’re a rarity and only tend to happen when someone chokes – usually when they’re low on life and they get ancey.
I used to think you were dumb because you liked kingdom hearts but I agree with this post. You are off of ignore. And sorry about thinking you were dumb.
Feels good man.
there’s no guesswork involved. don’t put words in my mouth
@Callmeanewb, punishing dash-ins are not hit-confirms… Neither is Shoryu-ing a jump-in. If my fireball hits my opponent from across the screen that’s a hit-confirm too? No, it’s just my opponent leaving himself open.
Pherai already explained what a hit-confirm is uptop. #1 being the hit-confirm scenario.
Hit confirm implies some kind of cancel or link because you’re confirming one hit into another.
so at the end of it; it’s merely a difference in definitions. great.
I still think it’s helpful to teach nublets what’s ACTUALLY going on. ie. the desicion making process, the reactionary process and the option select/being safe process.
I definitely concede on a couple of my examples being punishes. (the uppercutting a jump in one).
EDIT good shit with the discussion.
Hitconfirm - Hit-confirm, AFTER a move has connected, it is confirmed whether it hit and then the corresponding action is taken.
If you do not get a 100% hit confirm off of c.MK and you claim you can hitconfirm it you’re bullshitting. It’s that simple. Now say if you do get 100% with c.MK, you just beat the Japanese at that and you’d probably pwn them with your uber1337 hitconfirming skills. However, even while NOT hitconfirming c.MK into SA3, you can easily obtain a 90% or higher hit-ratio.
Just for clarification, I never suggested to only teach people 1 technique, just to call x definition a hit confirm, and y definition an option select.
I use crouch MP a lot.
Hey guys I’ve read over your discussions a couple times, it’s helping me out a lot, thank you very much.
Like I said, I’m new but am learning a lot, I almost want to record some footage and get some pointers, but I am playing on a modded X-Arcade and I’m not so sure it’s that great, I find myself inconsistent with QCF motions, especially when prebuffing them after a c.MK
I think I’ll wait for my HRAP to come and see if I’m any better on that. Thanks a lot again, I tried putting the CPU on random guard in training, and confirming with c.MK. I can honestly say it does work sometimes, but a lot of the times I’m late in cancelling.
I used to play on a projector, but I switched to a normal CRT and everything feels tighter. I think my projector makes stuff lag.
It’s harder to do it like that. Just play the CPU and practice that way. Even the best players only tend to stick it out when they think they’ll land a hit, and trying to do it over and over again against an auto-blocking dummy is too mentally draining unless the non-blocking intervals are really frequent.