Hi guys, I don’t main gen but I’m practicing with him as I am learning matchups with him, I have a really useful question here, Whats you favorite ultra and why? Both are good because you can actually set them up so for punch version, I’ll do super then the punch ultra, or the kick ultra, you could do wall kick into the ultra. Punch version takes more damage, but when I don’t have super, I just perform a wall kick into a ultra but when I have super I give the punch one more priority. I like the punch one for more damage, kick one is good anyway.
Kick one sucks. It has to be the shittiest ultra in the history of shitty ultras. Not even kidding. It does a pathetic amount of dmg for an ultra that’s air only. Not only that, but the angle on it is retarded. Sure, I’ve gotten a few people on a baited jump-in, but I just don’t like it.
Quite honestly, though, both ultras have their uses. The Oga > j. rh x2 > KKK ultra is nice sometimes, though if you have super, might as well Oga > Super > PPP Ultra. The place where the PPP ultra shines, though, is anti-Dhalsim/Gouki. Dhalsim is INCREDIBLY easy to hit since he floats, and if you ultra as soon as Gouki does an air hadou, you should hit him.
Its weird to me how the crane ultra scales down so much compared to mantis ultra which doesn’t seem to so much. I can do MK hands mk super to ultra and the ultra still does more damage than the crane ultra when I do the simple j.mk c.lk FA ultra. Everytime I do that one it does such horrible damage.
Nevermind, my bad, I misread the sentence above.
The kick ultra has more uses than the punch, simply because of a2a crane roundhouse. It’s better than rufus’ in that aspect because of Gen’s low and fast jumping arch and double overhead. Also no commitment to the second hit, even for the ultra to land. The ultra easily confirmed and does great damage.
[media=youtube]LmQYz45XpV0[/media] 1:16and 1:57
Those are examples of me reacting AFTER I jump.
[media=youtube]zbCP2FvoJas[/media] 1:24 (I miss this one because I happened to land behind him and it switched the inputs)
[media=youtube]iwUZNdNEzig[/media] 5:07 (here I give him a reason to jump with the lvl3 focus attack) and 8:26 (This was more of me just reacting to him moving, because at that point I felt he was gonna jump to anticipate me jumping at him first)
Those are examples if me jumping at them on reaction to them jumping. Notice who leaves the ground first.
Raw crane ultra is not so good, I’ll give you that. But that’s not really what it’s for and where you get the most use out of it. If you can react to people’s jumps you will ALWAYS beat them in the air and get a free ultra. That’s really how you should treat it.
I could even argue the damage point of view to you, but I’d like to stress that utility and damage potential is what’s important with Gen.
As far as Dhalsim, the only thing iirc that’s punishable with super/ultra (depending on how it hits and the range at which it hits) would be a blocked jump back fierce. If sim is just jumping back and Gen punch ultras/supers sim can just teleport before he hits the ground. He has to hit a button first, and even then the timing is difficult to catch him because you have calculated where he will land on top of you at the right time with respect to your super/ultra’s speed.
Gouken’s fireballs have really low recovery so if you were punch ultra him after he does a high fireball, I’m inclined to believe it to be a guess. Nothing wrong with that, but a guess is still a guess whereas reactions produce more consistent situations.
After writing the previous paragraph I realized you wrote Gouki, but I’ll leave it up there cause it’s good information. :smokin:
Punch supering/ultraing Gouki’s air fireball is good, but it’s not gaurenteed if he does it full screen and with the right timing so that he will still be falling back as the screen travels. Gen will fall just short of him. In that respect, it’s baitable but that’s just one of those goofy things. In any case, if he’s jumping back and throwing fireballs, he’s moving himself more towards the corner which is favorable to Gen – just like vs a Seth player.
Now that I think about it, I hardly even use PPP ultra outside of super > ultra combos. Even then, the dmg is scaled. Maybe I might implement it a little more in my playing. Thanks.
I’ve always hated that combo. Compared to the more standard crane j.MK, c.LK, mantis sweep combo, you end up wasting your ultra and 2 bars to do just 100-160 extra damage depending on how full your ultra is. FADC combos typically get that much bonus damage (or even more) while rebuilding 50-70% of a bar and letting you keep your ultra.
I disagree about Gen’s j.RH to ultra being better than Rufus’s. The hitbox on his is gigantic (much, much better vertically) and you’re not safe if his first kick whiffs. Gen’s option of doing 1 or 2 hits is kind of irrelevant in air-to-air; if the first hit whiffs then the second can’t come out, and if the first hits then you’ve got an ultra either way. It’s only useful for faking out grounded opponents, and then the ultra isn’t a factor.
Also, you can actually punish Dhalsim’s instant overhead jump back fierce on hit, and it’s really easy too. Just do the ultra or fierce super as he starts to fall and he’ll land on you. Doing it too fast and getting a reversal could actually cause the super/ultra to whiff because he’s still in the air while your active frames finish.
Anyway, my take:
-Pros: 1 more good setup (plus a couple bad setups), it can do more damage off a FA with straight jump RH -> Ultra, changes sides with the opponent to possibly put them in the corner
-Cons: Can just as easily put you into the corner, bad angle/hitbox for anti-air, Gen recovers just 2 frames before the opponent, leaving you with no momentum (and even swinging it against you, if you put yourself in the corner.)
-Pros: Usually does more damage and sets up a potential wall/ceiling dive for some added chip damage, works surprisingly well as anti-air (and even anti-crossup), Gen recovers soon enough to actually make use of the knockdown, very powerful tool in certain matchups for punishment/deterrence, doesn’t let the opponent out of the corner.
-Cons: It can leave you cornered too.
Yeah, I think the mantis ultra is almost always better in situations where you have a choice; I land most of my ultras by comboing into them off supers or crossup wall dive mixups, so I generally do have a choice. It just really irritates me to march my opponent into the corner only to trade places with him and get a whopping 2 frame advantage. I only use the crane ultra when my opponent will have a substantial amount of life left and I want them in the corner, or when I land the crane j.RH.
Rufus’s jump is slow and high, so punishing forward jumps on reaction requires much more space – more prediction than anything. Since Gen has a faster jump and the normal sticks out in front of him quickly, it’s easier to react and punish accordingly. It’s not gaurenteed everytime against certain jumping normals, but Rufus’s is probably just as likely to trade in those situations as well (Sagat’s jumping strong comes to mind). Also, in most cases Rufus won’t catch people with it on the way down from his jump, whereas Gen can hit jumps on his way up or down.
They both have strong points and are very useful to both characters, but Gen’s is more readily available because he’s faster in the air.
The point I’m touching on with the roundhouse hitting once or twice is that both hits aren’t required for the ultra to land. This gives you a sort of option select when jumping forward, especially against taller characters where you can time the roundhouse to hit them high, and if they were to jump you can ultra. If not, you can hit them on the ground for a second time and play the close range mixup.
To speak on the switching sides factor, both ultras leave Gen on one side or the other so in most cases you can choose if you want them to be towards or in the corner. Example, if you were to super them while they’re in the corner that would position Gen the corner before they land while they’re in juggle state. If you want to keep them in corner, use KKK ultra because it switches sides. If you want more damage to perhaps end the match, PPP. You can probably meaty cross them up after the PPP ultra and stay out of the corner.
I don’t have much faith in crane j.rh anymore.
Maybe its obvious but just a note to those thinking about using KKK super as anti air: you can be hit out of it.
Hell, PPP super/ultra is a better anti-air.
I was totally unclear with my point about switching sides. Both can obviously be useful near the corner off a super/wall dive. I was trying to say that the one good setup where you can only use the crane ultra has a significant drawback: it’ll probably put you in the corner. I’ll occasionally land the j.RH only to pass on the ultra, because it’s still early in the round and I’d prefer to keep my opponent cornered.
I guess I’m with Orochi Shoto here, I just don’t have a whole lot of confidence in the j.RH itself. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen j.RH whiff when both a crane and mantis j.fierce would have easily hit. It’s just not a spectacular air-to-air. On the other hand, Rufus’s j.RH is easily the most dangerous air-to-air in the game, even if you limit him to just the ultra followup. I don’t know what you mean about the spacing; simply hitting uf+HK will beat a jump in on reaction from almost anywhere but full screen, no thinking involved. Even against a well-spaced crossup, it’s pretty difficult to jump over Rufus at all when reacts fast enough.
Actually, it’s funny that you mentioned punishing forward jumps. In the videos you posted, you landed the ultra setup 4 times against straight jumps but only once against a jump in (and I think it might have whiffed if Bison wasn’t spamming j.MP.) If anything, I think Gen’s j.RH is more useful in those unusual situations, while Rufus’s is far better against jump ins.
Also, 4/5 ultra setups did or would have left you in the corner. >_>
That’s an interesting point actually. Gen being in the corner isn’t generally as big of a deal as other characters, but it isn’t an advantage and sometimes costs some meter to get out safely.
I really don’t mind being in the corner with the exception of being against Sagat, Balrog, or a good Guile. Other than that, no one else really scares me in the corner. As long as I got meter I’ll just Oga out if I need to.
Really? Guile and Rog are totally understandable but I don’t mind Sagat not being able to push me back in the slightest.
Abel cornering us can be scary shit though.
A good sagat I find it difficult to do much of anything when he’s got me in the corner. Short Jab short tiger knee, roundhouse if I jump or worse. I don’t really know what to do in that situation other than try to mk to hands if he leaves an opening or just oga out.
Abel in general doesn’t scare me much. I’ve found most of the one’s I fight to be predictable and with things that are easily punishable. Wheel Kick block punish with mk hands. Roll, just throw em out of it. And then they sometimes do the ex change of direction. Occasionally they’ll randomly stop the combo and command throw which is the only thing that worries me with him, that and his ultra hits like a ferocious monster on steroids.
You can avoid and beat the tiger knee with a well timed c.MK (xx hands,) You might stop him from trying it entirely if he realizes he’s risking 200+ damage for a little chip damage and frame advantage. At the very least, it forces him to mix things up.
Anyway, I don’t mind being cornered so much, but most other characters can’t get out as easily. It’s more annoying for losing an advantage than being put at a disadvantage myself.
PPP one because its useful
Whichever one is best for the given situation.
It’s awesome that Gen has two Ultras. I’m not going to let one go to waste simply because it’s not my favorite.