When someone just won't learn


#1

I play primarily 3rd Strike, but I’m sure this is common amongst all fighting games.

I come across particular types of players that do something that really, really bothers me. Now, I’m not sure if part of the problem is myself (which I’m sure I most probably am), but I’m most definitely sure they are part of the problem.

When I punish these types of players for repeating something way too often, be it in footsies (low short on wakeup, or always low forward when they’re in range for it, like always), abusing a gimmick, whatever, over and over and over, I expect (perhaps, quite foolishly) that they’ll learn their lesson and PERHAPS, not try it again, over, and over, and fkn over.

How this gets me into trouble, is that, me, being a splendid chap, accrediting my opponents with a fully functional cognitive apparatus, then adjust my play assuming that my opponents won’t go to whatever it is they’re doing… AGAIN! But they DO, and I’ll eat whatever it is they’re repeating a few times a match, even THOUGH I’ll punish them SEVERELY! (For those who come from 3rd strike, when I mean severely, I mean, Urien’s down fierce into 50-60%) Alas, I am too generous, and the great mental status I accredited to my opponents was indeed unworthy of their living corpses.

But I’m more then aware that I am also part of this problem… so then:
[LIST]
[]Do I just expect that they’ll do it again, and again, and just play out what would then be a non-beneficial match for both parties, since they’re unaware (seemingly) of they’re lack of creativity, and I learn nothing
[
]IS there anything I *can *do?
[/LIST]
Any advice here would be great =)


#2

If you’re trying to help them improve, can’t you just talk to them?

If you’re trying to win I don’t understand the problem here.


#3

My problem is, when do I expect that someone will learn their lesson from me punishing something they repeatedly do? What I do is assume they’ll learn their lesson the first 2 or 3 times, but when I do that, they still repeat the same thing, and I eat it again. I suppose its frustrating and I’m not sure if I should go about something differently.


#4

youre being mindgame’d


#5

There’s no real consistent strategy to guessing right. If you have no reason to believe your opponent won’t keep falling for the same thing I don’t see any reason to stop abusing that, but if you’re putting yourself at a big risk and they eventually change their move it might be a good idea to not press your luck.

No real concrete answer in that situation. It can be hard to read people who don’t know what they are doing.


#6

Keep blowing it up until you actually see something different; don’t assume. If he doesn’t get the message after all of that, talk to him. If he doesn’t listen and you’re still blowing it up, forget him.


#7

I can’t really tell what the question is here. If it works offline then you keep doing it until it stops working. If you are winning and they aren’t learning over a long period of time no matter how many times you explain how to beat it, it’s probably time to find better competition. When people keep trying to do things that don’t work and you get killed by it, it’s probably because you either

A.) gave them too much respect, or didn’t give them enough respect. People aren’t going to adjust how you expect them to; while what they did may have undoubtedly been the most retarded thing they could have done, you didn’t figure out your opponent in time.
B.) didn’t establish a safe pressure game.
C.) You got mind gamed.
D.) You were unlucky.

It’s usually A or B, C usually only happens against better opponents. You should never assume that it’s D, but it does happen sometimes.

edit: actually rereading this, it’s a common issue. You’re assuming you’re better than you are, and you’re also assuming that every opponent is as “good” as you are. Don’t play the game this way. Try to figure out the opponent as soon as possible and assume nothing until you do (because the minute you do, the other player will probably figure out that you’re expecting him not to do something stupid, so he’ll do it. Then you get into mind games…)


#8

You’re giving too much respect to your opponent. You know how some people just never adapt to a certain situation or playstyle? You’re facing the opposite problem. You adapt TOO much when it’s not necessary. If your current strategy is working, and is repeatedly working, why change it? Keep on doing it. Since your opponent can’t seem to figure out how to beat it, you win. Congratulations, you have adapted your strategy to perfect destroy your opponent.

Of course, if the issue is that you want to help your opponents learn from their mistakes, learn to play more flexible and adaptive, and thus force you to become a better player, then you should discuss it. Talk to your fellow players about it, and grow together as a unit.


#9

Yikes, that’s a bit of a heavy handed approach.

I assume you mean online, because someone who gets blown up like that with great consistency whilst next to you will definitely let you know about it in memorable fashion.

First you’re assuming that the opponent cares at all whether or not he’s getting blown up past the whole ‘whatever its a game whatta homo’ sorta mindset. The second is that you’re assuming that the opponent is on a level that he CAN change his gameplan his gameplay on the fly[changing things around in 1-2 games is nothing to sneeze at even at pro levels] to say nothing if he’s at the level where he’s still playing with buttons and doesn’t actually know how to hammer down correct responses. The correct thing to do is just play the game. You’re not running a nursery and you’re not obligated to help them improve in any way, just take the W and strut with it. If they really are like, ‘well how the fuck then?’ then by all means, help them out. That’s how I learned anyway. Same way too, haha - Urien on GGPO just blew my shit up :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

The problem is if you’re trying to play mind games with someone who isn’t using his or her mind, then you should be prepared for the consequences and accept them sportingly .


#11

First step toward improving is taking responsibility for your own mistakes… if you’re getting hit, you’re getting outsmarted. Accept that you aren’t “part” of the problem – your bad decisions are the entirety of the problem. Then you can start trying to sense subtle differences in player style and adjust accordingly instead of trying to make the same adjustments throughout a match for every player and then complaining about how you’re getting hit because they’re being dumb, where somehow in your fucked logic a “smart” player would be the one /not/ hitting you. makes sense…


#12

do shit untill people show you they can handle it

doesnt matter if the guy DPs on 9 wakeups in a row and you punish him hard for it. if you knock him down a 10th time, block it like the previous 9. only do differently when people show you they’ve learned. dont assume they have


#13

Your respecting your opponents too much. If they show the willingness to mash DP to get you out of a combo and they do it repeatedly, then adjust and start baiting the DP.


#14

as if this was easy to escape from. I have trouble with that too and my opponents switch characters most of the time. 3S is one of the meanest games really.


#15

This thread is kind of dumb… Lol don’t yell at me people.
but anyways, what he said!! ^^^


#16

Don’t put yourself in a situation where they can punish you for baiting their dumb shit. Some people will be super dumb and, for example, wakeup throw if you start baiting their uppercut. So don’t stand next to them. Not directly confronting your opponent’s bullshit is sometimes the best and safest way to deal with it. Just a thought.

Your responsibility as an opponent is to show your opponent his weaknesses. You can’t learn from someone who always does the same thing over and over, except that you will get really good at punishing that one thing. Accept it for what it is, play the game that exists and not the game you want to exist. A person with actual potential will step it up if you punish them ten times in a row for the same thing.

Don’t even tell them to stop, let them initiate the conversation. If they complain about your damaging combos, for example, tell them that you couldn’t do them if they stopped doing cr.lk on wakeup.

Hopefully you have SOME people you can play that give you a challenge. Don’t just play people worse than you.


#17

This is the big thing. When playing a competitive game you have to understand that both players cannot win, and making a match “close” doesn’t do anything for the final win, you either win or lose - no “almost” (Well draw games but whatever).

If you feel bad for your friend then you need to TELL them what you are doing. It sucks to have to reveal how the magic is done but a simple “I’m going to keep hitting you low on wakeup until you block” will at least let them know how you’re doing this. I tell people things like that and then follow it up with: “but now that I’ve said that am I going to do it a 10th time? Or was this some mindgame so I can get you to block low when I go high.”

You have to make it clear that every situation a player only has so many options, so you have to make sure you take the option that leaves you at the most safe position. Or you can hope they will learn by stomping their faces over and over.

Just let them know how you won - it helps sometimes.


#18

maybe just maybe these people just try to play the game for FUN. i know it is just inexcusable. I know that if you play a fighting game you must spend every available minute learing Every aspect of that game or you just ruin it for everyone else. you could always (god forbid) expect to run into these “CASUAL PLAYERS”(looks away in disgust and spits) and try to have a little FUN your self. or just burn your dam game.


#19

Wrong website.


#20

Very wrong website. Am at a loss as to why this fellow believes playing at higher levels is some ‘anti-fun’ philosophy. It is not. There is some very real fun in learning and growing.

Actually, let me put it another way: “I play fighting games against other humans in the hopes of an interesting, adaptive experience. If I want an enemy who will sit there and constantly fall for the same thing without even trying to find a counter (success isn’t important, I just want them to try to adapt)… then you know what classic single player game series does that really well? Mega Man.

Edit: Before anyone misinterprets, I enjoy Mega Man. Just saying that I can get a similar experience out of the AI for said games and it won’t even send me hate-mail calling me “cheap” for winning with a grappler or so on.