Which Buffs/nerfs do you think will make significant tier changes for 2012?

I think the characters that got the most significant buffs are Cody, Guy, Blanka, El Fuerte, Gouken, Evil Ryu, Dan, Dee Jay, Gen, Hakan and Juri.

The majority of the rest of the cast got slight/moderate buffs and fixes. Some slight dmg or stun or move property changes.

Some of the cast stayed practically the same, like Sagat and Cammy.

A few of the cast had more on the nerf side than buff side, like Viper’s Ultra and thunder knuckle dmg nerf (but at least the ultra is easier to connect).

And then the noticeable nerfs were for Fei, Yun, Yang, Akuma, and Makoto for some reason.

Overall I don’t see this next version as having a character that will significantly dominate. I’m not completely sure who will be garbage tier either (even Dan for that matter). I think fei is still gonna be high tier. I have no clue about the twins.

I won’t say to much more since I’m just bs’ing. My prediction for the top tier character… The dark horse… EVIL RYU!!! His health buff coupled with his other buffs to his tools will make him one scary fella. And I would be fine with him being top tier. I don’t consider him a cheap top tier character.

So what are your guys predictions?

Cody isn’t as scary as people are making him out to be.

He was always playable, its just that they fixed some of his strange downsides (overhead being punishable on hit; walkspeed being slow for swagger; badspray being unreliable for techable knockdowns)

Viper will be the best.

Seth will be top tier imo, fei long still strong but I dont dare to say how much until I play him. Hakan is going to be competitive to say the least, so is juri.

Viper top tier and close if not #1, akuma still top 5 despite the nerfs and all the scrub akuma crying. Cody maybe high tier, it depends on how big the walkspeed buff is.

Dudley buffs overated imo, still bad character with a gameplay that doesn´t work in this game.

Yea, I definitely agree about Viper and Seth. Those two characters scare the hell out of me. Mainly Seth. Viper’s seismo and ultra dmg nerf will tone her down somewhat, but Seth just seems really powerful. Unfortunately Seth is such an unstable character when it comes to buffing or nerfing that I couldn’t tell for sure what slight nerfs to give him to balance him out.

• Tanden Renki (Super Combo) is 3 seconds londer

That is going to be awesome.

• Stamina from 950 to 1000.
Evil Ryu
• Health 900, Stun 900 (up from 850/850)

Dont like either of these tbh. Oni especially seems strong in the right hands allready.

Even though El Fuerte got some much needed buffs, I can’t say how much a tier shift he’ll get. The restoration of Super Tortilla brings him closer to Super level. Chaining to other light attacks from cr.LP (or something like that) makes it easier to set up pressure. Then EX Quesadilla Bomb makes for a high risk: high reward combo or a mixup setup.

I don’t see him higher than mid, making him truly a character based on the player’s quality.

I think Sagat will be no1 again. He’s already top 10, most of top ten is getting nerfed, he’s not. No one will be buffed enough to create a bad match up for him. That’s my call considering the changes announced so far, assuming they stat intact.

In AE, I think top ten was Fei Long, Yun, C.Viper, Yang, Akuma, Sagat, Zangief, Makoto, Ken, and Bison in that order. C.Viper, Sagat, Zangief & maybe Ken have the best chance of staying somewhere in top 10 in v.2012. I see Juri and Cody making the biggest leaps in the tier charts. Personally I don’t think Fei Long will stay top tier. His nerfs weren’t as bad as Yang’s, say, but buffs to other characters will actually give him tough matchups again. Abel, Guile and E.Honda making a comeback? So many characters, so many changes, my mind cannot compute.

EDIT: I don’t think Seth will be top tier, high tier maybe, but only few can actually make him work and go the distance with him. He still bleeds.

No way will Sagat be number 1. Fei Long will still be a pretty bad MU for him despite his nerfs, and Akuma will still be a horrible matchup. There are plenty of other characters that I’m sure will still give Sagat trouble as well IMO, but those are just two of the most obvious examples.

That is very much true, they will still give him trouble (I didn’t say he’d have no bad match-ups, I said none of the characters who are getting buffed would be getting buffed enough to create a new bad match up for him, although maybe the shotos…), but will they be ahead of him in the tier chart? I don’t think so. Especially not Fei IMO. The higher they are, the harder they fall. I’m skeptical as to whether Akuma slip that much in that case, considering I don’t think the palm and throw nerf are not that bad, but I definitely don’t have the authority to speak on that.

EDIT: I can go with C.Viper being no1 in v.2012 if not Sagat. I still say Sagat for 2012. Vote Sagat trollface

Gouken gpot a lot of changes from AE to 2012 but not so many from Super, if that makes sense.

Denjin is different, but we’ll have to see how that plays out. That alone isn’t going to be changing tiers from the description they gave.

Kongo in Super was only high and low. In 2012 it will now be High, Mid, and Low. Still a nerf from Super. In AE the High zone didn’t work like you would envision it to. They just fixed it so that hopefully it does work that way now. Stun was increased but damage was lowered from Super (previously 180 now 150).

His palms have not changed, they just have shorter ranges. LP palm, the standstill one has supposedly been giving a bigger hitbox. How big that hitbox is will go a long way in determining how much of a buff he got.

His unlisted cnhange seems to be something about his cl.st.mk, his only three frame move. I’d wager that it has a farther range so will activate from farther away to help be able to punish minor mistakes. Have yet to see though.

Last change was to make his hit confirm he received in AE actually work in all situations on all characters. That’s pretty big as that’s 400 damage I believe for one bar. Cl.st.mp > c.hp XX EX senku dash tatsu.

All in all this is going to be the best version of Gouken to date, not sure how good that will be in comparison though.

2012 version really just feels like the version AE Gouken should have been as almost all of these changes were fixes to things they added in AE with the exception of Denjin changes.

They took away the wrong palm in AE which eliminated a bunch of combos (also took away the only thing we had to stop people FADCing through our one hit fireballs as mid range) and gave us a useless one.
They changed/nerfed kongo and made the high kongo next to useless.
They gave us a hit confirm that only worked from a diagonal jump in from the front.
They gave us a 3 frame normal that has almost zero reach.

I’m excited to see how these fixes all add up but I’m not getting super crazy about them just yet.

Sagat has like six bad match ups. Two got easier for him. Wouldn’t be too surprised if he ends up at the top, at least in the numbers. Ken looks like he could be number one as well. I can’t see Seth or Viper being in the top 5, although if new technology comes in, I could see them being top 10 pretty easily. Seth’s buffs are a bit interesting. Ultra 1 will change most match ups that dropped to 4.0-4.5 back to 4.5-5.0. nj.MK having projectile invincibility could make a few 4.5 and 5.0 matches go even or slightly in his favor. Viper got hit pretty hard damage wise, and that does affect some of her match ups. She’ll likely be sticking where she is.

Changes are honestly looking pretty good for the most part. I don’t think there will be a completely dominant character. Sucks that Yang and Yun got nerfed into the ground though. I don’t like how they handled their changes.

Viper is top.

Yun, Fei, Sagat, Seth, Makoto, Gief, Rufus, Rog are A-tier.

Akuma, Yang, Ken, Ryu, Bison, Cammy, E. Ryu are B.

Honda, Guile, Blanka, Cody, Guy, Adon, Sim, Chun, Juri, Dudley, Oni, Ibuki, Rose, Sakura, Abel, Vega are C.

Dan, Gouken, Fuerte, Hakan, Dee Jay are shit tier.

No way Ken isn’t top 5 in AE2k12. He was arguably Top 7 in AE and at worst Top 10. He beats Sagat (See Momochi vs RF and Bonchan), can handle Viper and should have the match up advantage against the Twins now as well as having a better time against Fei.

Thanks for the laugh.

Akuma and Ken lower than Seth Makoto? Unlikely. Abel and Adon get significant buffs and they drop from B tier to C?

explain this fail list of yours

Maybe he is dyslexic. Or maybe there is like a secret coded message in how he ordered it. QUICK EVERYONE GET OUT YOUR DECODER RINGS!

gasp The first letter of each tier, look!

" Viper is top.

Yun, Fei, Sagat, Seth, Makoto, Gief, Rufus, Rog are A-tier.

** A**kuma, Yang, Ken, Ryu, Bison, Cammy, E. Ryu are B.

Honda, Guile, Blanka, Cody, Guy, Adon, Sim, Chun, Juri, Dudley, Oni, Ibuki, Rose, Sakura, Abel, Vega are C.

Dan, Gouken, Fuerte, Hakan, Dee Jay are shit tier. "

VYAHD. An anagram for …Day…vh…? :wtf:

I don’t think there will be a Super Makato or Super/AE Hakan tier character anymore. There is nobody in the cast that didn’t get their buffs, and sucks so bad they need a rock bottom tier for them. Rose and Dudely need some fucking help, but they aren’t as shitty as some of the worse in AE. They are still the same character that is flawed.

I’m sure there will be a bottom tier character, but I don’t believe the gap will be as big as AE/Super.

what about Dan, an extra frame on a medium punch, cmon capcom your better than that.

i think Yang will drop to lower mid tier. Evil Ryu will move up to higher mid tier. those two characters make the most significant move.