Which Seimitsu Joystick is best-suited for SSF4 AE?


#1

I’ve been wanting to just experiment with other parts and get used to modding my TE.

I tried Seimitsu buttons the other day and actually didn’t like them at all compared to the nice clicky feel I get from Sanwas. Maybe they had silencers on them or something, but they just didn’t feel very good.

On the other hand, I have not yet tried a Seimitsu joystick. I’ve heard good things about the LS-32, 40, and 58 (with a 56 spring?) but apparently all of them have an issue with the deadzone? Not completely sure, read a few threads and people seemed to mention that…

I play Ryu and would like a stick that’s sensitive so that I can input motions faster (for those FADC Ultra set ups that need to be executed quickly. Not DP FADC Ultra lol)
I think the JLF has a rather large throw distance which is really inconvenient when inputting down motions. I don’t know why, but the grip I use just lends itself to taking extra effort to consistently input down accurately.

Anyone who has experience with the Seimitsu joysticks, please share your knowledge :slight_smile: .


#2

I don’t have much experience with a varied selection Seimitsu sticks, but I recently switched from using a JLF to an LS-32, and I love it. I can’t really describe why I like it, but I think the slightly shorter throw definitely has something to do with it. Can’t go back to the JLF, which sucks, because my cab is fitted with two of them. :stuck_out_tongue:

The only thing I’m bummed about is the lack of an official shaft cover for the LS-32 (at the moment, anyways), though a custom one can be made pretty easily.


#3

I would recommend Hayabusa if you are concerned about dead zone. Same short engages and shorter throw on Hayabusa as Seimitsu and on top of that, better build and faster snap back to neutral.

On the other hand, what’s this about clicky and Sanwa buttons? You don’t know clicky. Clicky is D44x, and if you don’t know what that means then there is no help for you.


#4

Before you read my dissertation, my short answer is also Hayabusa (aka “H-stick” in my writing)!
That’s the best-performing, best-feeling “Seimitsu” joystick I’ve used that’s on the market.
Too bad Seimitsu isn’t making this one themselves!

If you’re located in the US or Japan, you can only buy the Hayabusa direct from Hori’s US/Japanese websites. They don’t ship internationally, though… Sorry!

I’ve used the LS-32-01 and the Zippyy clone, the LS-40-01, and the LS-58-01…
Add Hayabusa to the Seimitsu joystick list, too.
Apparently it’s possible to create a “JLF clone that handles like a Seimitsu joystick!”

The Zippyy LS-32 clone is the lowest quality build of the 4 and probably the least consistent… Okay for Pac-Man and Donkey Kong but not the joystick to use if you’re in a tournament and need consistent performance.
Those issues aside, it’s possible to upgrade the Zippyy to at least -32 level with -32 spec parts. The same springs, microswitches, LS-32/-40 Mounting Plates, and general -32 parts are compatible with the Zippyy clone. It’s questionable whether you’d want to buy one knowing what I’m telling you right now, though! LOL

LS-32 – very good joystick overall, more comfortable than the JLF IMHO but it has quality problems in manufacturing, and some questionable build aspects (re: the pivot joint)… Some people do “pop” the pivot occasionally. I’ve been having more issues lately in general with doing diagonals on SOME games. That seems to affect the joystick more with some games (mid- to late-1990s fighting games which are faster-paced than most current fighters) than others. It’s perfectly fine for SF IV and Soul Calibur games. I’d question whether you’d want to use it for SF Alpha games or most Tekken games, though…
All those issues aside, it’s a sentimental favorite of mine… and I DO use it on the days when the LS-40 doesn’t work for me, too!

LS-40 – tighter activation than the LS-32 without the pivot issue… However, again, there are questions on the build and quality of the parts. (The part quality issue affects most Japanese joystick parts AND the Korean joysticks – it’s not just Seimitsu or clone joystick thing.)
Tighter activation as a I define it = less muscle force needed to execute moves; you simply don’t have to move the shaft around as much or as quickly… The throw is definitely less on a joystick with tighter activation. Downside of that is that on some days when you’re not relaxed it can actually be more difficult to use the joystick, too!

LS-58 – unbelievably tight activation, very loose stock spring, no discernable benefits over the LS-56 which it’s based off. My least favorite Seimitsu joystick that I use… This is the one I’m thinking of selling all the time now! LOL


Most Seimitsu users go with the LS-32 or LS-56/-58. They’re at polar extremes in the Seimitsu line in terms of handling and activation force/input.
The LS-40 handles most like the LS-32 but with a better pivot, less throw, and tighter activation but not as extreme as the LS-56… It’s looser-feeling than the LS-32 despite having the same spring; stick tension is lower by default. Microswitches on the LS-40 are not quite the same as the LS-32 and don’t have the same “engage” feel.
Put a gun to my head, and I’d tell you that even if you try BOTH the LS-32 and LS-56 that you should for your best interests go and ahead and at least try the LS-40. It’s “sort of” in-between the other two joysticks in terms of performance and feel. It’s a bit of the best of the LS-32 and LS-56/-58 traits. It has a “gotcha” though (see my definition of “tighter activation” above) that keeps me from using it more than the LS-32, though…


Advice – !!!TRY a Seimitsu first before you buy one.!!!
It should be easy enough to practice with an LS-32. That’s by default the second most popular joystick after the JLF. The LS-56 shows up as third most popular with more people starting to get into the LS-40.

I would try at least two of the LS-joysticks (LS-32 or LS-56 are easiest to demo due to availability at tourney’s) and see which end of the performance spectrum you like better…
You have not-so-tight LS-joysticks (LS-32, LS-40, LS-33 from what I’ve read) and the tighter activation/ultra-tight LS-55/-56/-58 series.

If you really, really don’t like the JLF, my advice would be to stay away from the LS-33… it’s supposed to be closest in feel to the JLF among the Seimitsu joysticks. I haven’t played with the LS-33 myself but the most authoritive arcade parts FAQ’s and people who HAVE played with the LS-33 are saying it’s JLF-like, “JLF-lite.” It’s JLF-lite because it’s also the smallest production Japanese control you can buy supposedly… The JLF itself is not a big joystick. By comparison, the LS-32, LS-40, AND Hayabusa have bulky bodies.

The major performance difference between the LS-56 and LS-58 are the stock springs… All other factors are generally the same except for the mounting plates that are incompatible between the two otherwise identical designs. I hated the (way too loose IMHO!) LS-58 stock spring and replaced it with a higher-tension LS-56 spring! The LS-56 and LS-58 in general have too-tight activation inputs for my comfort zone… I prefer the LS-32 or LS-40 for fighting games, period…!


I did a little bit more experimenting recently and it seems to be that ‘quality’ control in joystick build is more of an issue on some games that have questionable input control laws than more recent games where you’re “not fighting control inputs.” Control inputs aren’t just a matter of muscle coordination and hardware, guys… There are games that are infamous for BAD input controls and companies do tweak controls constantly between titles – even within a series! The original SF2 title (“World Warrior”) had notoriously bad character balance and control issues. The control and character balance on SF2 games actually got better until SSF2Turbo which had the worst character imbalance and control in the series since the first SF2 game! Some SNK Neo Geo games and half the Mortal Kombat games also have their share of power balance and control issues. You have characters with the same movesets that are notorious for not only power-balance issues (ex: Ryu versus Ken) but also for having moves that execute faster and with noticeably different timing patterns/rhythm involved (Ken’s Dragon Punches come off consistently faster and easier in Super SF2 Turbo HD than Ryu’s).
Sure, a higher-quality joystick can help with the issues I illustrated but it’s not the end-all solution. You have to practice, practice doing moves the right way, too! I personally have a HATE-HATE-love relationship with Super Street Fighter II Turbo but it’s been a great game to use to assess the performance of some joystick hardware, too, in ways where I think the most recent SF games (the slower-paced IV series) are generally useless…

!!If money and part availability isn’t the issue, the best-built, most consistent-performing joystick I’ve used is the Hayabusa.!!

The Hayabusa is a hybrid of Sanwa JLF build sensibilities but with better parts in the base and a feel more like a Seimitsu joystick. The stock Hayabusa has a throw that’s in between the LS-40 and JLF… Definitely more comfortable than the JLF.

The stock microswitches on the Hayabusa are unlevered like the JLF’s. The funny thing is that in spite of that, it really does feel more like a cross between the LS-32 and LS-40. I don’t think in retrospect that the activation forces are that much different from the LS-32 but I felt it had a tendency to hit diagonal movements (Dragon Punch) more consistently and I was able to use it for longer periods of time without my performance faltering as quickly as it would on the LS-40 for sure!

The Hayabusa definitely has a slightly longer throw than the LS-joysticks. Throw isn’t a bad thing as long as the joystick recenters comfortably and fast enough for you… It’s not bad like the JLF where the shaft struggles to recenter and doesn’t perform very well on older-style Capcom CPS-2 fighters. The H-stick recenters fairly well – as least as good as the LS-32 and LS-40 – and faster dash moves seem to come off consistently. Whereas I was struggling to get off weaker Dragon Punches with *Ryu in Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD with the LS-32 and LS-40, they were executing well over 80% of the time with the Hayabusa. Very, very solid joystick.

  • [details=Spoiler]Yeah, the weird thing I noticed with Ryu in SSF2T HD was the inconsistent Dragon Punch… The strongest-force “Hard”/“Fierce” Dragon Punches were coming off fine but I was having issues with the “Weak” and “Medium” force Dragon Punches… I went back to Training Mode and did some more experiments and found there was definitely a rhythm issue in the game – it’s NOT totally me!
    Went back and tried the same movements with Ken and I was executing ALL force levels of Dragon Punch regardless of whether I was using the Hayabusa or LS-32 control lever. I felt in my case at least that the H-stick was more consistent with Ryu…
    SSF2T HD isn’t exactly like its original arcade counterpart but it shares enough of the same control and character balance quirks to still be useful for judging control levers.
    Capcom’s programmers are definite sadists on occasions when it comes to their games! It can be definitely said that you had to be very alert with the earlier Mega Man and SF games compared to most of what’s been released new in the last 3-5 years.[/details]

#5

LS-58 + octo gate for me…


#6

How stiff is stiff? Like the joystick takes muscle effort to move around?


#7

I’ve read differen things about the 33 and 55. Slagcoin says they have far engage, while Kowal says the opposite.

I’m getting a 55 this week so I’ll post my opinion, since I would have appreciated being able to find more info online before I bought it.

OP, I recommend a 32 to begin with. It has a very different feel from the JLF, and does address the issues you cited without being too extreme.

GeorgeC, thanks again for weighing in :slight_smile: I’ve been thinking about getting a Zippyy to test, but your comments and the fact that I can get 32s for the same price have put me off.


#8

Is it easier to input down? As in not having to put as much effort…


#9

No, no, no, no!

Zippyy IS cheaper than the LS-32 – IF you don’t upgrade the microswitches or spring, that is. LOL

Seriously, by the time you fix the Zippyy, you aren’t saving money over the LS-32, period – 0.187-tab version or -01 PCB model. You’ll equal the price of the official non-clone product by the time the fixing’s over!

The Zippyy doesn’t have a PCB model and ships with a flat mounting plate. You have to buy an alternate mounting plate (Seimitsu SS Mounting Plate model as used with the LS-32 and LS-40) AND a harness adapter to use with 90%+ of the joystick cases on the market. It’s up to $16 to buy with just two those parts (~$8) on top of the Zippyy’s cost ($8.50-$9.00 online usually)… Not much cheaper than the LS-32-01 which is a heck of a lot more convenient to install in all honesty…

It’ll take effort to move only if you buy the stiffest springs on the market!

A lot of stock Japanese springs have maybe 2 lbs of tension on them tops.
The Japanese joysticks are pretty flimsy and move with little effort with stock springs installed.

The JLF is infamous for being loose. The LS-32 and LS-40 really don’t have much higher tension, either. I’d say honestly the LS-40 feels about as loose as the JLF despite having the same spring as the LS-32… that’s the effect of the microswitch placement and actuator that the LS-40 uses.

I would say a stock Hayabusa feels about the same tension-wise as the LS-32. The Hayabusa spring itself appears to be a JLF spring clone. Can’t comment on exact spring tension but it felt similar to the JLF spring when I squeezed both springs between my fingers.

Higher-tension springs have up to 9lbs – at least some of the replacement springs Paradise Arcade Shop sells.
I don’t know about the Korean and Happ/iL joysticks… they’re outside my area of interest to be frank.

I would NEVER go as high as 9 lbs for a Japanese joystick. I bought a 3-lb tension replacement spring for my LS-58 (it’s listed as an LS-56 3lb spring) and I thought at first that it was almost too much. The stock LS-56 spring is 2lbs; the LS-58 spring is significantly less than that (under 1.5-lb tension?).

You don’t want TOO much tension on any joystick. For me, optimum is probably anywhere between 150-200% more than stock tension – around 2.5lbs to less than 4lbs tension. I’ve tested higher than that on the LS-32 and JLF but you just start losing the good performance traits of the stick past a certain tension limit. Too high and you can barely move the stick, period!

You never know what tension you’ll get in a joystick screwing different springs or even the same type springs together. It’s just inconsistent across the board and you never have two joysticks with the same exact spring tension even with the same mod parts involved. You can’t count on either Sanwa OR Seimitsu to produce springs exactly to spec year after year. There are just too many reports of people buying product from parts vendors and reporting one stock stick “feels” different than the other. The most consistency you’re probably going to get is sticking with springs from the same production lot, the same year, OR buying replacement springs with higher-tension and using them by themselves – ie, you don’t mix springs and install one spring per stick.


#10

So for a shorter engage distance, I would be better suited with the 32 or 58? I’d rather not go with 40 because of having to install that SS plate.

I don’t mind the tension the JLF, the easier to move the better but its always better to move it less to execute for efficiency purposes…


#11

58 fits that description the best.

GeorgeC, I buy LS32s for £8 + £4 shipping from Japan. The only place I can buy Zippyys in the UK sells them for £8 + £4.50, and if I were to import them they would likely cost that much as well, unless I bought in bulk from aliexpress or something.


#12

OP: Have you considered a Kowal actuator? It sounds to me like that could give you what you’re looking for at a much lower cost. I bought one and liked it so much that I ordered them for the rest of my sticks. http://www.focusattack.com/kowal-1mm-oversize-actuator-for-sanwa-jlf-series-joystick/

Have any of you Seimitsu guys tried a JLF with one?


#13

What store sell LS32 for £8?


#14

8 Pounds would be around $15-$16, right? That sounds right for the current exchange rates – IF you buy straight from Japan.

We pay more for the Japanese parts in the US… Going by current rates, it’s $15-$16 to buy the LS-32 (either version; cost difference is minimal in Japan; only 100 yen difference between the -01 and 0.187-tab LS-32’s) from Japan direct. Of course, they’re going to add duties and shipping costs into buying in the US. That’s why we pay $23 for the same control lever hardware from domestic hardware vendors. UK/European prices are still worse than US because they add VAT on top of import/duty fees and what they have to charge to cover the import shipping (every vendor does – unless they’re based in Japan or Hong Kong). We don’t have VAT in the US – yet… I bought parts from the UK on maybe 2 occasions when the exchange rate favored it.

You’re never going to see the Seimitsu or Sanwa product at the same price zones in the US.
The consolation for buying domestic, though, is that you’re not paying $10-$15 minimum for even a small order. For most smaller orders under $35, you’re looking at $7 or less shipping continental unless you get heavier items – like multiple joysticks!
Even my Hayabusa was shipped $5 domestic… It probably would have been around $5-$8 cheaper in Japan almost for sure. I definitely would have paid more to get it shipped from Japan in the amount of time it shipped from California!

Yeah, the LS-32 is definitely the better buy!

Not a perfect joystick but it’s definitely better than the Zippyy… Might as well get the real thing instead of a clone with inferior microswitches and soft springs.


#15

So LS-58 it is? Those translucent ball tops and dustwashers look mighty good too.


#16

The prices Arcadeworld UK charges bear no relation to cost, imo. An LS32-01 is £21.99 plus £4.50 shipping. That’s well over $40 even by conservative USD/GBP exchange rates. When I buy from Japan for a small order the shipping cost is £5 max depending on weight of items (sticks vs buttons).

There’s more to it than VAT in this case.


#17

It appears if your the only game in town, you can charge what ever you want.


#18

Good for you for finding the best deal you could!

I admire more people who are SOMEWHAT stingy with their money than people who are free-wheeling and spend every last cent they have! I try to get the best deal I can most times, too.

I really do get a kick/more fun out of hearing what people SAVE versus what they SPEND… I call that intelligence!

I have a cousin who’s the same way… Runs in the family! LOL


#19

After reading a bunch of shiz on LS 32 and LS 58 I still can’t decide between the two.

What are the most prominent differences between the two? I’m only going to be playing fighters.


#20

LS-58 is a weaker version of the LS-56

And there this chart from slag coin