Why cant I beat him?

gouken

#1

So I play seth, who isnt supposed to have a bad match, but I feel like Gouken v Seth is not Seths kind of match, considering his angled fire balls murder seth and the counter does crazy damage.

I came across this gouken player (who taunts…dick) who I tried to beat with my best character ken, but that didnt work so I ran it back with seth so I can punish the fireballs with ultra 1. But I dont know what to do when I dont have meter, or if I couldnt kill him with the ultra? I really wish seths health wasnt as low as it is, thats probably the reasoon its a bad match, but help me understand, its hard to just zone gouken out.

Are there any other characters that are bad for him, I play a few characters so maybe I can study the match a little more, but I want to improve my seth right now, and I need to get past this obstace!


#2

Seth is a bad matchup for Gouken.

Granted, being combo’d by Gouken when you are Seth is terrifying, but the matchup is still in Seth’s favor.


#3

I would have to agree with Mooshington. I normally thrash most Seths but thats because Gouken has arms made of brick and Seths insides are pure glass. But any Seth worth his salt I dont think anyone of us would be able to touch. Seth has the most options in the game and you need to abuse that. Gouken cant do much versus empty jump command grab AND you have a freaking DP for crying out loud. Just mix it up and dont get predictable. When you get predictable is when you get hit and when you get hit by Gouken you die.

Oh, and Gouken is supposed to be zoning you, not the other way around.


#4

Gouken on wake w/o meter is free to Seth. he HAS to guess his way out.

Shit… Gouken has to guess his way out WITH meter too…


#5

Im originally a ken player, so I often underestimate the abilities of seth, he has chuns toe taps, a sonic boom, dhalsims st.H, a dp, spin kicks, launcher, and all that. I guess I am used to being a shoto, and shotos can do what ever the hell they want!

I guess the health difference is what scares me. I know that seths dive kick if landed on the head there is no stun (but people think there is and try to block) but in the waist and lower there is stun. I also see Seth can Spd right after a dive kick to the head, but I noticed that his medium is somewhat inconsistant, but the light hits all the time? WTF?

But from you are saying, just make sure Gouken cant get up. Right? I mean isnt that seths gameplan period?


#6

<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“darkzero197”>
But from you are saying, just make sure Gouken cant get up. Right? I mean isnt that seths gameplan period?</blockquote>

More or less, but more so then normal with Gouken. His counter is incredibly risky for him because the normal one only counter either high or mid or low. Long as you mix up your block string there are no way he can guess right more then he guess wrong. Even with an EX, all you have to do is pause a little, wait for him to hang himself because EX counter, covers everything -only- if you attack him. You can easily bait it out and knock him down again. Once he realize he can’t just throw counter out, you can go back to option select your suction thingy and block string to punish back dash. Keep yourself couched and his EX tatsu won’t hit you. He is basically helpless at that point since he have no real reversal that can “get the fuck off me”.


#7

<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81284/darkzero197">darkzero197</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>So I play seth, who isnt supposed to have a bad match, but I feel like Gouken v Seth is not Seths kind of match, considering his angled fire balls murder seth and the counter does crazy damage.<br>
<br>
I came across this gouken player (who taunts…dick) who I tried to beat with my best character ken, but that didnt work so I ran it back with seth so I can punish the fireballs with ultra 1. But I dont know what to do when I dont have meter, or if I couldnt kill him with the ultra? I really wish seths health wasnt as low as it is, thats probably the reasoon its a bad match, but help me understand, its hard to just zone gouken out.<br>
<br>
Are there any other characters that are bad for him, I play a few characters so maybe I can study the match a little more, but I want to improve my seth right now, and I need to get past this obstace!</div>
</blockquote>

Is this what you fear?<br><br><a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KbbjJQ7MSg&feature=youtu.be”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KbbjJQ7MSg&feature=youtu.be</a><br>


#8

<blockquote class=“Quote” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/35655/climaxter">climaxter</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81284/darkzero197">darkzero197</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>So I play seth, who isnt supposed to have a bad match, but I feel like Gouken v Seth is not Seths kind of match, considering his angled fire balls murder seth and the counter does crazy damage.<br>
<br>
I came across this gouken player (who taunts…dick) who I tried to beat with my best character ken, but that didnt work so I ran it back with seth so I can punish the fireballs with ultra 1. But I dont know what to do when I dont have meter, or if I couldnt kill him with the ultra? I really wish seths health wasnt as low as it is, thats probably the reasoon its a bad match, but help me understand, its hard to just zone gouken out.<br>
<br>
Are there any other characters that are bad for him, I play a few characters so maybe I can study the match a little more, but I want to improve my seth right now, and I need to get past this obstace!</div>
</blockquote>

Is this what you fear?<br><br><a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KbbjJQ7MSg&feature=youtu.be”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KbbjJQ7MSg&feature=youtu.be</a><br></div>
</blockquote>

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>NICE DOUBLE PERFECT! Anyway, Im scared of that now that I watch it. But I was mostly referring to this guy catching my jumps. If I dont wall bounce there are very few ways I can get it on this guy. All I need is something I can exploit about Gouken, a weak spot basically. I am not of course the greatest seth, I have a few good games, but he still isnt great. I wanna take seth to tournaments and stuff but I really want to surpass this “obstacle” first</span></font>


#9

No offense to you personally, but I refuse and most anybody else here
should refuse to tell you how to capitalize on Gouken’s weaknesses. The information is out there if you put in the work.  Really, it’s kind of a silly thing to come to the Gouken forum with people who all main Gouken and suffer together through Gouken’s weaknesses and argue about how to compensate for Gouken’s weaknesses and ask all these Gouken mainers for advice on how to beat Gouken with Seth.<br><br>When the player is good to great, Seth is one of Gouken’s worst match ups…period.  That’s my advice on this subject.  <br><br>That said, a taunting Gouken is a dick.  <br>


#10

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81284/darkzero197">darkzero197</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>NICE DOUBLE PERFECT! Anyway, Im scared of that now that I watch it. But I was mostly referring to this guy catching my jumps. If I dont wall bounce there are very few ways I can get it on this guy. All I need is something I can exploit about Gouken, a weak spot basically. I am not of course the greatest seth, I have a few good games, but he still isnt great. I wanna take seth to tournaments and stuff but I really want to surpass this “obstacle” first</span></font></div>
</blockquote>

You know that basically everyone can kill Seth with 2 right guesses?<br>And Gouken with his high damage can do it really well.<br><br>To win with Seth, you have to play flawless, if not, then you are going to lose.<br>A Seth that doesn´t make any mistakes is hard to beat, but he has also to play very risky to do so.<br>


#11

Gouken wins this match convincingly Imo<br>


#12

ex flip is so good against seth.<br>it’s crazy how many situations are not only solved by ex flip, but end in a win because of seth’s low health and stun.<br>


#13

my countless matches vs cenhenry would support shines last comment


#14

ex flip gets out of most of seths shenanigans and can lead to a one combo stun if you have meter. But the fact is, if played right the matchup is pure nightmare for Gouken because all of Seths options and pressure. <div><br></div>


#15

EX flip doesn’t save gouken from wake up pressure or help get out consistently…Seth can easily stop his pressure and wait for you to land on the other side unless he was going for something slow like command grab. It happens in my vid…nothing new there.   It helps close the gap…thats it’s best use in the MU IMO. The only reason I got that double perfect was because for like 6 matches while he was beating me relentlessly I looked for patterns.  For Gouken, the only reason Seth loses is the same reason any other opponent loses…for being predictable.<br>


#16

ok you guys arguing against ex flip, i’m not saying “ex flip every time you get a bar.”<br>i’m saying it’s really good.<br>there are a bunch of reasons:<br>1. seth is slow and tall and has a hard time walking under it for a punish.<br>2. it is immune to seth’s uppercut all the way up.<br>3. it punishes seth’s uppercut or his 360 with a full combo.<br>4. it threatens seth’s u1. he can’t u1 if you have 1 bar of ex without risking a full punish.<br>5. it makes seth relieve his pressure to watch for ex flip. (that is a good thing, not a bad thing.)<br>