Why CCs?


#1

I’ve been playing CVS2 for about a year and a half now, and to be honest, i never liked CCs.

I was playing last night on XBL against an opponent who knew what he was doing. I beat him 2/4 times but he executed his CCs well. He had a Rolento, a Bison, and a Sakura. I had a K Ken Rock Geese.

He hit me with a Rolento CC which I found to be not all that intimidating. It didn’t own me by any means. I know CCs can do upwards of 9000 damage if executed right, but some characters can come decently close to that with a K super.

I can see the pros. On arcade you can RC. It is VERY versatile. It gives almost every character a viable anti-air and ground punisher. The invincibility framed on activation are great.

I, personally, don’t like it instead of Lv. 3 supers. I also don’t like that I can’t get around much in A with the lack of a run.

So maybe you A-groovers can give me some insight on to why you personally play A-groove and use CCs? I’d like to know.

As they say, “Know thine enemy…”


#2

that was me you played last night man. GG’s btw, but it was kind of laggy, everytime i got you in rolentos i screwed it up cuz of lag, i never finished it off with the super, lag always messes up my timing, with the super it does nice damage. I just started playing rolento like last week though, just to try something new.

So why cc’s you ask?? Its pretty simple really, they do nice damage, especially bison and sak. Numerous ways to catch an opponet with them. Last night you would of got caught many more times if the lag let me activate when i wanted to. Online a - groove can be a major pain though, but offline it has sooo many benefits, rc’ing being one of the main ones. Also online the activation isn’t as good as off, becuz of the lag as well, i also think they change the invincibility frames as well on the xbox. Really though i guess it comes down to personal preference, i like it cuz i like doing crazy combos. Offline i don’t mess up hardly at all, maybe once out of 20, and i never miss sak’s combo, once your in it, thats it. Online though if there is even a slight bump in the connection it makes a fb, or super fb come out, very annoying.

But ya, a cc messed up all of the time isn’t intimidating at all.

n8


#3

i like A- cos once the meter is full, i can simply jump in attack without worry about any anti-air move or super.
try to create your own CC is great…just feel good…

(but, with P/K, v still can jump in attack in any time, depend to the skill of Parry/JD)


#4

I prefer A-groove because I find CC to be more fun. You can scrape them to death and all they can do is watch their meter go bye bye. Also you can sit on a full bar this can give you a psychological edge over your opponet. Invincibility during activation can get you out of tight situation. There are many setup for guranteed CC. Has Alpha counter, RC and boot 9000+ in damages.


#5

With enough insight into the game and messing around you start to notice that A Groove has ways out of any situation, depending on character, and ways to punish whatever, with good reaction and execution.


#6

you cant forget that its also about style and flashyness… hehe.
my first serious groove was A-groove I always liked it when ppl are like oh! when I doa combo they never see. and Im not afraid to roll when I have a full bar becuz I can usually activate if they try to poke (especially agaisnt sagat). as long as they dont grab.

usually when I get a full bar, I get control over the game. if they jump I got an anti air CC waiting that does lvl 3 dmg and more.
they gotta be careful not to poke at the wrong time. and epcially wake ups.

did I say style?

the only thing is hardly has anydefence but at least it has RC.


#7

When I play against A-Groove players the style is amazing. Most of the characters have good damaging CC’s, but some are just overpowered. The main reason why I fear A-Groove is because of Sakura. Even her chip damage is amazing, and is an instant guard crush. If I was good at CC’s I would certainly use A-Groove.


#8

The most obvious answer to it is that CC’s can be almost done anytime anywhere for all characters. Even for charge characters who need to charge for supers, they now have the luxury of an instant invincible super that potentially does more damage than their level 3 super. (Bison, blanka for example).

I have to repeat the fact that you can CC when you are IN THE AIR. This is exactly the same as saying that all your characters have Air Supers.

Lot’s of set ups to CCs. (eg obscene ones like Rugal’s RC Godpress, Bison’s ‘I hit you from anywhere = CC’)

Not to mention other characters who have CCs that do well over 7000 damage.

Added to that, the bar fills up decently fast, Level 1 supers are STILL available to you, you can Alpha Counter, you can safe fall and you can RC.


#9

damn right fool, but thanks. :encore: Put Two and two together. You’re a K-Groove player. A-groove is the best against K, because you can do SO much fuckin’ chip with Sakura it’s incredible. If they block a Sak CC then how are they gonna get their meter up. And on K you dont have any counters. Remember that YOU control your opponents meter if they’re on K. Plus RC is a great way to own people who dont have many options like K-players. Randumb2oh9 if you wanna beat my A-groove then you should learn another groove.

Anyways outside of being great against K, A-groove is still by far the best groove in the game. You can set up a CC in just about any character which makes this groove VERY practical. WAY more practical than K-groove which can be waited out whenever you get a super. I know a Sak combo that will leave you with no life left. You do the huricane kick set-up to CC, another HK at the end then a jab to fierce DP, then there gonna be dizzy so you can link some hits to get your bar up then conect to a super. 90 hits and around 12000 damage. Now tell me that doesnt make A-groove good. And with Bison you can set up a CC from ANY situation. Even air to air. And his CC is nothing to be laughed at. A K-super doesnt do anywhere near as much damage as a CC. The average CC does at least 8000 damage. And lets not forget about RC. RC is one of the best things in CvS2, especially if you can abuse it. They attack then you RC a huricane kick with Sak and connect to a CC and it’s over. Easy as that. You also build meter extreamly fast on A(especially if you have a good battery like Sak). A groove is by far the best groove in the game and C is second, because it has alot of the same options as A. And with a character like Chun you can kill them with one combo, just like A-Sakura. A-groove is scary as hell when if they have meter. MUCH scarier than K-groove and your CC wont just dissapear after a few seconds.

I just played XBL CvS2 at my friends house for the first time ever not too long ago and let me say I was greatly disapointed. I couldnt even play because of the lag, let alone do CCs. I had to use my K-groove team and I couldnt even JD because the lag makes the timing all wack and shit. I tried my C-groove, but then I forgot there was no fuckin roll cancel!!! I was gonna try P or N, but that shit was gay so I just said fuck it!!! So dont judge someone’s CCs when they cant even do them because of lag. Rolento owns on A and the damage he can do is amazing. Judge when you can play them at an arcade or one-on-one on a console. Where they can play their best and RC and all that other shit. Because playing CvS2 on XBL is SO fuckin’ gay!!! :lame:


#10

Please stop.
For one, all your saying is A Sakura this, blah blah. Every other A character gets owned by K, except maybe Blanka because of electricity chip. But its still not safe up close.
Anyway…
Sakura CC does roughly 9000 and change. The right Sagat super from K can do about 10118. So even if I get hit with the 9000 I can get back and kill you with 10118.
You won’t have any meter protection. You’ll just be turling or runnning away trying to get meter. As soon as I get you in the corner, one cr. forward and you’re done.

On the note of the stun CC:

That stuns characters with stun points equal to Dhalsim or less, can’t remember the number, but i remember the vid I saw it on. Even at that, it’s not practical. Besides, can you land it when you’re tied in a match and everyone is staring at you screaming for the cc setup?
Can you do it under alot of pressure?
Just stop arguing, you contridict yourself too much in all or your posts.


#11

Snake Dizzle: All you just said is all theory fighting “I can do this, this and that” So I can just say “I can be Geese and counter your custom when you activate” Thats Bullshit. Dont go there, its only good on paper, "when he jumps in I blah and blah"
Paper sure is nice.

Sure you can run from K when they’re raged, but they still find ways to get in and eventually combo into super on you.

Sure you say you have setups for Customs, K groovers and all other grooves have ways to land supers also so that point is null.

Granted a blocked A groove Custom from Sak takes off at least 1/2 life and breaks guard and what-not. But after that, Im bound to get raged and you’re left without meter, so start running away cuz you know that Im coming to get you.

I doubt you played many good K groove players where you live, because good K groovers know how to deal with people who RC all day because you can get thrown out of them.

Granted I don’t live where you do because if I did, I’d challenge you and see if you can do that “Sak combo that will leave you with no life left” on me. I’d like you to RC through everything I do, I want to see you run away for the “couple of seconds” of the K groove bar.

PLease just stop theory fighting because it only looks good on paper :lame: :lame: :lame:


#12

Ok, first off you’re wrong of everything you said in that post. K gets owned by A and you didnt even give shit to back it up. And WTF are you talking about saying a Sagat super does more than a CC. I doubt Sagat can do what Sak does in one K-super. Are you testing your shit out on ratio 4, because 11000 is just about their whole bar and I doubt Sagat can do that with just one super. You say my setup isnt practical, but it’s VERY practical if you can do it. Who cares if people are screaming or whatever. If you saw the evo2k4, 3s Daigo v.s Jwong match you would notice that those people were screaming loud as fuck and there was alot riding on the match, because it was so close. That didnt seem to make him fuck up. So I guess I just dissproved that. I can do the set up and thats all that matters. I fuck up sometimes, sure, but why would I want to base my gameplay based on when I mess up or not. I practice alot to make sure that I DONT fuck up so what I use in a match is my own business.

And why are you trying to start shit? Everything I said is legit in trying to prove that A-groove is a good groove. I was just using big combos to prove a point. You keep saying shit I posted is stupid and I’m this and that, but all I was trying to do is answer a fucking question!!! He said “Why CCs” and I said why it was good and I gave some examples too. And you also said some shit about how I contrdict myself in all my posts. I’m not sure what you meant there, but it sounds like thrash talk to me. Last time I checked I wasnt looking at what YOU post so why are you trying to keep track of what I post. I take it you were in another thread I posted in, but all I know right now is that you’re some random guy trying to start a flame war. There isnt much more I can say except I’m right and You’re wrong and that you should mind your own business. Lets just leave it at that, because I’m tired of random people trying to start immature little flame wars.

And ShinNeoSnake, i’m not theory fighting I was just saying that A has big damage that can be set up very easilly. In my area 75% of the good players here use K and I know what you mean. They attack like they normally would then combo to super when thay have a chance. All I was saying is that if you play smart you can evade being supered in K, but if you have A then you have unlimited time to get the big damage that you want. Thats all I was fucking saying so dont get it twisted into “There gonna work there way to you and combo to super”. My point still stands because a CC does more, You can set it up in multiple situations and you dont have to worry about a little time limit that you got from getting your ass kicked. And my Sak CC doesnt do a WHOLE bar, but when it leaves them with just a centimeter of life left then I guess I have the right to round up a little bit. And I DO get thrown outta’ RC, but all I fuckin’ said that it was a big part of CvS2 and A-groove has it. You seem uneducated about CvS if you dont know how crucial it is to the fuckin’ game. Dont try to argue about what groove is better because I would definately win, because I have SOOOO many more reasons why A is simpley better. Besides this isnt even about that shit. I use K as my secondary groove and it just doesnt have the same results of ownage as A. Theory fighting is WAY different than what I was saying. You’re the one doing the theory fighting. “There just gonna get through and combo to super”. If You’re good you’ll know what to do against a raged K-groover. But what are you gonna do against a guy who can do whatever he wants when he has meter and not have to worry about running out of time. And once again I was just answerin’ a damn question so stop getting pissed over it. :tdown: :lame:


#13

a groove does not own k groove in any way. if anything, k has an advantage because of the free supers. a groove is better, but it does not own k.

a sak is good but don’t make her more than she is. most k supers do almost as much damage as saks a groove. and unless she combos in shosho or catches you with the activation, random activate into chip won’t work. you’ll get dp’ed, countered, or maybe even jumped away from and the meter will bleed itself. and that %100 combo will never be seen in a real match so don’t argue for it. most %100 combos have setups that will never work on a human opponent.

and rc’s don’t kill k groove at all. they aren’t that big of a deal really. once the rc’er gets grabbed 2 or three times, they stop trying to abuse and then it becomes a fair match up again.

btw, i think c is considered the top groove. it’s the most solid and safest groove in the game.


#14

Ok, im a lil drunk so im gonna try my best to organize my thoughts so that people can understand… this is just a general post about a lot of things people are posting.

  1. A blocked cc will give the person very little rage meter, so they are not automatically raged when they come out of it. Also, the best time to do it is to do it while they have meter, so not only are you not giving them meter, you are burning their meter at the same time. Blocked cc’s are by no means “free”. Yes there are lots of ways to set them up, but there are also lots of ways to fuck you up.

  2. IMO Rc’s are becoming less and less a decision making part of cvs2. There are many ways to punish rc’s and very few that are actually “safe”. Rc’s are only as good as the way they are set up. Baiting/punishing Rc’s becomes like baiting/punishing any other non safe move in the game. Random Rc’s will beat some players, but for the most part they must be well set up (or on reaction to a jumpin/random slow move…). They are actually a liability if used improperly because (a good example) a move like sakura RC hurricane will easily get punished if baited or if the wrong strength is used. They also have a small chance of not coming out. I dont care who you are you are not going to RC 100%. In that rare chance you miss (assuming you have them down pretty damn well) you will most likely get combod into super. By the time this happens, that has just cost you the round.

  3. K has a HUGE advantage when A is without meter. And on average, k supers do more damage than a-combos. And there is NO way you are going to completely control k groove meter. You are not going to try to run away the whole match building meter, while trying to leave them with none. You have to give them SOME meter with pokes, and with them jding.

In my experience, understanding the “advantage” makes it less of an advantage. Rcs might beat most things head to head, but knowing this you can bait Rcs and punish. You can do chip damage on grooves with no AC, but knowing this you can also bait activations.

I personally use CC’s because I like the defensive advantage it gives me. I like comboing into it better than normaly super combos (even though i cannot do this 100%), I like the threat of random activation. I like doing random activation and eating a dragon, and only having to build half my meter again. I like the fact that the threat of activation is enough to stop a lot of moves from coming out. To me the damage in a cc does not mean as much as the fact that i can control when i do it, and burn time while doing a fair bit of damage (enough that it is hard to recover form with lets say 15 seconds left on the clock). But most importantly, I love the invincibility i get by mashing 2 buttons at the same time, and being able to see what my opponent is doing when i do it (are they standing still, poking, or are they getting ready to punish with a dragon/super … which can sometimes be avoided by activate roll if the timing is right).


#15

RandomSuper-If you can do a CC on someone when they’re near rage or already raged then there gonna be caught in it for a little bit so I guess that gives them less time to get a super in on you and they wont get meter for the CC if they’re already raged. So a super in K-is difficult to pull off against A-groove. And once again I was simpley answering a question and I used Sak as an example of how good CCs really are if used right. After all IMO A-Sak in the top three best characters. As for random chip there are certain oportunities where the only option you have is to chip them, but if you do it at the right time they cant escape being chipped. But whatever I’m not a big fan of random activation anyways. And what you said about RC isnt true at all, because if you know the consequenses of RCing at the wrong time then of course you’ll get owned. I try not to rely on it, but it does help to give someone the egde if you can use it correctly. Think about how many people use RC electricity in tournies. C-groove and A-groove are EXTREAMLY close in rank so I’m not gonna argue there. As for 100% combos, sure they wont work in a super big tourny with the most skilled players ever, but Sakura’s is acually VERY practical. All you need to do is jump in with fierce then you can do the rest yourself. It’s acually considered the most practical one out of all of them.

Now can all these arguments just end, because this thread is about why CCs are good. Not “lets think of every way SnakeDizzle is wrong and post it”.


#16

Gwai lo summed it up nicely. I think snakedizzle is just a little confused, no need to jump on him guys :smile: . It’s really more A-Sak that can beat k-groove rather than A-groove beating K. Her cc is 99% guaranteed damage almost any time she activates. R1 A-sak can take out 1.5 or 2 characters easily, that’s a lot harder for other a-groove characters to do.


#17

dizzle: i don’t agree, but whatever. and the thread is not about you being wrong. but if i posted that c dan rapes a sak because of blah blah blah, you’re not just going to sit there and accept it. sometimes, opinions CAN be wrong. as good as you are or think you are, you can’t make a blanket statement and just expect people to be complacent. basically, don’t post if you don’t want to get your thoughts challenged.


#18

Snake Dizzle: Your still talking about situational stuff, not being general. “A full life combo when the guy just did a whiffed c.fierce and is going to do a low tiger shot” is situational, but “Activating through any attack and then comboing them” is more of a general thing and isnt really situational, plus jump in activations are that type of activation too

That sums it all up.
Nothing more to say here.

Now for me to contribute something to this damn thread.
People use A groove because of CCs. So you asked why CCs? when you have supers and stuff in the other grooves.

CC’s when landed, do a good amount of damage, about Level 3 worth or more. Also, CC’s also give you something that no other groove has, the ability to reset and deal even more damage. No other groove can do this, at least not with the potential that A has.

Also, there are many ways to set ups customs, jump in, combo into custom, command grab, roll activate, if you can think of it, it can work (might not be as easy to get it to work)

As a K groover, The thought of CCs always give me something to think “Play more safe because one mistake will be 1/2 life”

Im not sure but do A groovers or any other groove players think “Play more safe cuz K groove is raged and they can keep trading hits with me” or “Play safer because their damage potential is great” Just a random question.


#19

K groove is a major threat when raged. After knockdown, you know not to safefall cuz K can run and super yo ass. You know that K can small jump rh into super all night long. You also know that a K groover will not hesitate to land a free super.

Honestly, the best way to use a CC is the same way you’d use a LOT of things. Use it to punish certain moves. for example, you feel a dp coming and just sit there. Dude does in fact do dp, whiffs, and now you activate instead of plain old c. fp.


#20

Ok cool, but I was saying that you guys are overlooking any of the things that are obviously true that I post. Surely there must have been something that you must’ve agreed with me on. I like having my thoughts challenged, but not when like 5 people on one thread are dissagreeing and not looking at the shit I’ve posted that surely is fairly agreeable.

ShinNeoSnake-When I said that A owns K I meant it in the way that A owns every other groove asides from C. Thats all. I’m not theory fighting at all. I was simpley posting options to try, like running K-meter out. When I said that you can run out K-meter I meant that you can play safer and hold back on attacks that could just be a mistake. I didnt’ mean that it’s best to run away. Thats not theory fighting it’s just playing safer to prevent mistakes. A-groove owns K IMO because you build meter fast with attacks and not punishment, And you have unlimited time to take advantage of any mistake you want, but when you’re playing against K naturally your gonna’ want to be safer and you only have to play it safe for like 20 seconds as apposed to A where you have unlimited time to punish then when you fund an opening. I guess THIS is sorta theory fight, but people will fear your A-meter and they wont be in the clear until they use it or they mess up. Roll cancel is just an option that you have in A. If you use it right then you can own alot of people, but if you use it wrong you’ll get owned just like any other mistake. I use K ALOT too so I know the pros and con of both grooves. Dont think I’m dissing K-groove players, because I happen to be one myself.

Feel free to challenge my opinions any time, but please dont gang up on me. It makes me feel like a stupid little scrub that doesnt know shit. I have my set of opinions and you all have your’s. I respect your opinion when I argue so please resect mine. And I’m being as polite as possible, because I really dont wanna’ make anymore enemys on srk.

,SnakeDizzle,