Why Cosmic Heel Reset = Fail

vega

#1

Ok this thread is just to tell all you folks who like your resets after Cosmic Heel. Here is what you are missing out on. Also its to inform new players of your "options"
after Cosmic Heel.

“Why Not?”

And please any “well it loses to mahsers so its not usefull” non-sense; kept it outside because half the tactitcs every character has loses to random ass mash.

Ill also post other semi-useful things you folks (new) might not know, which i very much doubt you dont know. Chances are you already knew them.

Legend

  • Link
    xx Cancel

Meaty Attacks of Scarlett Terror

HK.ST - HK.ST - cr.mk
im sure if you use lk or mk variants you can use a different move because of over all frame data.

ST - slide - cst.hp
should beats OS tech, mashed jabs, backdash, and EX Seismo moves type moves

HK.ST - HK.ST - cst.hp

HK.ST - HK.FBA - cr.mk
If they teched the FBA lands meaty, if they did not tech then cr.mk is meaty

HK.ST - LK.ST - CH

HK.ST - MK.ST - CH

HK.ST - HK.ST - CH

^^ Depending on what kick you use for the 3 up there, it determines in which frame Cosmic Heel hits the opponent. LK.ST set up beats normals, while HK.ST beats back dashes. While MK sets up a nicely spaced Cosmic Heel.

Cosmic Heel FBA set ups

CH - ST - FBA (back wall) - Izuna
also any combo ending in ST you can do FBA to back wall to set up a “safe” dive.

CH - EX FBA - FBA
corner only.

CH - ST - FBA (forward wall corner only)

“But it Loses to SRK!!”

Well of course, but mix it up back dash or with your tick throws using a combination of; cr.lp, cr.lk, regular throw, and kara and you have a mix up game just consisting of throws alone taking advantage of frame data. Now with your excellent walk speed, pokes, and over head. You should be able to get a lot out of a knock down now, especially of Cosmic Heel.

“Can I Have Another? Well of Course, but They Are Shenanigans Mister!!”

Throw Set Ups of Cosmic Heel

CH - cr.lk xx lk.ST - throw

CH - slide - lk.ST - throw

Cross Ups

CH - cr.mk - EX FBA
for this one you have to time the cr.mk so that it resets him in the air so you can use EX FBA at the first frame and hit with a cross up.

CH - HK.ST - HK.ST - EX FBA

CH - EX FBA - ST - EX FBA

CH - cr.mk(whatever cancels) xx EX SHC

Splendid Claw - cr.lk/lp - EX FBA
(Depeding on who you are fighting which move you use is key)

CH - HK.ST - HK.FBA - EX FBA
(If they dont tech then you do EX FBA, yay lets finally take advantage of those long recovery frames)

There are more of these but i dont know them. Feel free to tell me. Also these are all very hard to do (for me), and it looks like they must be frame perfect to do them (except for the last one)

Note

As i play more and more with these set ups, cross up EX FBA is becoming a very valube tool and really worth learning. Not only because its a free mix up, it mixes up you mix up already. Making Vega much more scary on opponents wake up. I think because of all these options I think he has one of the best wake up games in the game now.

Meaty LP.RCF Set ups

HK.ST - cr.mk - LP.RCF
the timing is lose, but there is a visual cue to help you get it. After Scarlett Terror, you press cr.mk when the opposing character is where Vega’s head is while Vega is crouching.

EX FBA - cr.mp - LP.RCF
The timing is loser on this one, after FBA you have to wait approximately 22-25 frames, which is why i use cr.mp to fill the void and give me an idea of the frame count.

Ambigious cross ups of Scarlett Terror

HK.ST - Walk slightly back - Cosmic Heel
Should land in front, can follow with meaty cst.hp

HK.ST - Walk slightly forward - Cosmic Heel
Should land behind, but you look like you are landing in front, can follow with meaty cst.hp

(Alex (Kamisama100) found or introduced me to these, credit goes to him)


Vega Basics, Set-ups, and Tactics (with Hitbox!)
Vega Basics, Set-ups, and Tactics (with Hitbox!)
#2

Hmm another crossup setup huh? Ill test that one out soon.

The setup I am working on is something like CH x H ST x H ST x something (incase they tech) or FBA if they dont tech. The something will probably be cr lp or cr mk.


#3

<3 u pedo baby


#4

^ What he said.

You’ve Cosmic Heeled your way into my heart.


#5

Here is one that covers wheter the guy techs or makes it irrevelant.

CH - hk.ST - lk.ST - slide - cr.lk - cst.hp

if they did tech the slide is a meaty slide.\

and another

CH - hk.ST - hk.ST - cst.hp

for wake up though of course you guys knew about this one though.


#6

Very nice read <3 I’m impressed!

I like how you actually explain it instead of going “Well you use this this this and this.” and then not say why X3


#7

wow i hardly ever use any of these.

i use a very simple oki

CH - HK ST (or EX depending on situation) into kd, CH over into 1 of three outcomes

cMK - cMPxxEX FBA (loses to throw, beats wakeup whatever)
instant jump back fierce (or roundhouse if no claw) (beats throw, loses to AA and can be punished on hit)
throw or tick throw (another kd or resets sitiuation)

sometimes i’ll mix up my instant jump back fierce with jump forward over them fierce into jump back fierce

i’ll start throwing in a couple more of the ones pedo mentioned


#8

i forgot to mention against certain characters (Dee Jay more to come)

CH - slide - lk.ST

it will not cross up, but it looks like it will. Now you can use mk.st to cross up. Now you have an ambigious cross up that will recover against reversals. Sadly i think it loses to wake up grab Ultra’s.

edit: i really never explored follow ups after EX FBA. I mean any combo that ends in FBA will and can end in ST, unless its a sweep punishment or a move that cr.lk range wont allow it to reach. What are some follow ups to FBA or are the only ones a risky cross up EX FBA using ST as a meseruing device or safe jump? Becasue really there has to be more Oki games of FBA, or is the trade off final? Maximuim Damage vs Position and a very rewarding Sitiuation where if you’re opponent messed up you land an easy 315 damage combo.

also i forgot to mention there are sum set ups where you can make the last claw swipe of cst.hp land as a meaty, so if you get a counter hit bam Ultra. There is a Ultra set up for you guys.

also a lot of these set ups can be tweeked so that they become “safe attacks” where if you opponent mashed a reversal with 5 frames of start up or more you recover in time to great them with another fat combo.


#9

Besides the cross up Ex FBA after a Izuna drop + HK ST you have the following. I can assure you that these options completely wreck people. Mainly 1-5 if you mix it right. Notice how 1-5 can ALL put them back at the EX FBA knockdown and they all do 250 dmg +.

  1. you have meaty CH, if they block you have frame advantage for cr lp combo if they mash a non i frame attack.
  2. non meaty CH (for backdashes),
  3. cr lp then walk st HP to wreck OS tech,
  4. cr mk into full combo,
  5. space urself for cr lp or st lk combo,
  6. kara throw or walk throw.
  7. Jump HP overhead
  8. POM
  9. Or FBA before the ST

My personally most used ones are # 3, 4. However I use mostly all of them.


#10

OK. Thats good to know. Mix it up with other stuff and you got yourself a mini vortex


#11

Also I just came up with a pretty dam nice followup after CH x HK ST. I still need work with it, as it is a little difficult to do but essentially, after the hk ST hits you do a cosmic heel twice.

If they tech…

  1. on the second CH you can do it to where you cross up TWICE which makes it look so weird that even I thought I was on the other side lol. From there you can do cr lp combo. If they block, then you are at frame advantage AND at a good range to do some other options like block string, kara throw, cl HP, etc.

  2. Or you could make it so you don’t cross up a second time and recover before them to get the meaty cr lp.

  3. Or you could let the CH hit meaty and combo into ULTRA 2 (it works but dam is it hard for me right now, since I just came up with it)! If they block you can have frame advantage of +2 or +3 depending on if you did it right which means that cr lp would wreck any non 2 frame move like OS tech or mashed jabs or jump.

Oh yeah and if they Don’t tech you do cosmic heel 3 or 4 times.

  1. I believe you can make the forth CH meaty and do the same as above. It keeps you at good distance at all times for combos. If you mix up your moves right it can work well.

  2. If you mix up moves after the third CH, then you can really put on the pressure.

I may have to get a video of it in here. I completely wrecked some people online with CH followups after HK ST.


#12

Hey guys Im fairly new to the forums. I had two questions about notation Im seeing here.

Does “xx” mean cancel into?
What does cst.hp mean? I know hp means hard punch but I .cst has me stumped.

Thanks for any help you can give me. This thread rocks!


#13

Hey guys Im fairly new to the forums. I had two questions about notation Im seeing here.

Does “xx” mean cancel into?
What does cst.hp mean? I know hp means hard punch but I .cst has me stumped.

Thanks for any help you can give me. This thread rocks!


#14

yeah the xx according to the legend = cancel.
cst.hp = close standing high punch


#15

Does that work!!!

What else can you combo into Ultra2/1?

…I’m hitting the training room!


#16

For some reason I can’t pull it off right now. I get really really close to but then I fail. I think the one that I did succeed at was the Cl HP x CH x Ultra 2. I can’t remember right now. But I just know that you have to hit with the later frames.

Or it could be just that I am not hitting on the last frame like I am trying to.


#17

CH into Ultra 2 is extremely difficult and requires very good spacing or timing. You actually have a better chance of landing j.HP -> Ultra 2.

Gotta start practicing crossup EX FBA.


#18

Here are more set ups.

back throw - hk.ST - cr.mk (meaty)
back throw -hk.ST - EX FBA(cross up)
Splendid Claw - cr.lp/cr.lk (depending on character) - EX FBA(cross up)
Izuna Drop - hk.ST - cr.mk (meaty)

and i have more but i forget.


#19

In the “AE changes” thread i’ve read that Cosmic Heel is very important for Claw’s game, and i read something about an “Option Select throw punish” and i don’t know how this option select is done and when.

All the list in the first post is awesome stuff, and i will try all of them in training and hope to incorporate some (at least) into my game…
…but to incorporate Cosmic Heel into our game we need tools for every situation.

can we build a list of options for when Cosmic Heel is blocked?
Thanks.


#20

I’ll just stick to hard damage instead of gambling for a very small increase.

It’s cool and all but not practical enough for high level play to me, I rather them on the ground so I can maneuver from there to do whatever I want since the ST gives you a good bit of time to position yourself.

Also I dont think Vega needs any shenanigans to win, becoming reliant on shenanigans will bring you a rude awakening when you’re playing better people. Frame traps and such are great, but the risk-reward isnt so good for any reset unless you can perfectly cross up which even then I rather just take the safe and very damaging ST after a Cosmic Heel.

That is why Reset=Fail like you said, these options are great though.