Why do people say N-Groove sucks?


#1

Ive been playing around with n groove lately. It seems to have everything a groove needs to be great. Run, low jump, ac, counter roll, even the tech roll when your knocked down. Not to mention you can hold on to a level 3 as long as youd like. So what is it about N groove that supposodly sucks so bad. Why was it mega popular for a time and then all of a sudden it sucks?


#2

No one said it sucks, you can still win with N Groove but other grooves have benefits that either fit there personal style and or characters. I play N/K personally and there is a reason ill play K over N most of the time. IE the added defense and damage and the jd which gives my characters another AA.


#3

Anyone else have an opinion on this matter?


#4

Well … the thing is, N groove is great, but everything it has to offer can be found elsewhere. Roll cancel is in C and A. Run is in S and K. You can’t sit on a level 3, only level 1’s. And if you’re going to sit on a level one, might as well pick C groove.

The one thing I think hasn’t been realized about N yet is how good counter roll is. It can set up a lot of things …


#5

N-Groove was the groove of choice for the first Japanese nationals. After that people explored other grooves. However, now N-Groove is resurging in Japan thanks to (or perhaps as evidenced by) Tokido and Ohnuki’s return to the scene.

Counter-roll is THE best thing about N-Groove, IMO. N-Blanka is the ONLY Blanka that can get out of Sakura’s CC once it’s started, and it gets you out of a lot of blocked BnB combos as well (Hibiki comes to mind).


#6

Gunter already pointed out the other reason I still continue to play N Groove. But as far as sitting on a lvl 1 goes I think its better. People are generally more cautios against C Groove with its maxed bar because they usually have a good idea of when your going to use it. In N Groove you dont have to activate till you absolutely want to, and with a character like Blanka thats an awesome thing. While yes you do have a lvl 3 if you break stock it still gives an impression that you are walking around with a lvl 1. This maynot seem like it matters to you but it actually does play into the mind games.


#7

a while back people were touting that N groove couldnt handle RC’s as well as A C P and K groove

I beleive this is bullshit but it was the reason people downed it when RC was new and seemingly invinciple


#8

i still think it is weak against RC…for instance, i am rc’ing a headbutt against a rolento or blanka…you have two stocks, a counter roll or counter attack takes that stock you have and therefore you can’t do lvl3’s…so you can basically only avoid my rc or rc me back…right?


#9

Is the Blanka charged? If so, break stock, super.


#10

oh; i mean i wasn’t talkin about a blanka just sitting there, like he would have to make a move forward before i would rc, and not full screen either, more like just outside or at his c.fp range…but i mean; it is just tougher for N than other grooves to deal with rc’ing imo


#11

You can also rush them the fuck down and not let them have any breathing room so that they won’t be able to RC in the first place. N-Groove has a better rush than any other groove, because they have low jump, run, AND roll cancels.

There are a lot of players in Japan that are going back to N-Groove. I’m sure that after SBO (i.e. after videos of top Japanese players using N-Groove successfully become available) people over here will start flocking back to it as well.


#12

<---------not a flocker nor an N-groove master

I have used k-groove since day one…but I am saying I think RC’ing is N-groove biggest downfall…and your right, if people see footage of N-groove played correctly then they might give it another chance.


#13

why is N-groove rushdown better than K-groove rushdown? sure you gain RC’s, but just defending covers up wholes in attack patterns and allows you to jump at somebody without getting owned by an AA. plus once you’re raged, that makes rushing down that much better.


#14

N has run->roll (Buktooth special), RC, low jump, running normals, etc. All without the character having to get his ass kicked. Buktooth often rushes down his opponent without taking more than five hits the whole round. All of that rushing builds up his meter, so he is almost never without it. N-Groove just has so many options off the rush, it’s almost unfair.


#15

i get what you mean, but does all rushdown in N-groove have to be projectile oriented? with his N-iori, the main objective is to throw a jab fireball and run after it from full screen or 3/4 (if i remember his FAQ correctly). otherwise, a character just running at you and rolling is pretty suicidal unless there’s the threat of roll super or something like that. and morrigan is an exception just because her run is like a triangle jump

i think N-blanka is ridiculously good in the right hands because he doesn’t die to sakura’s CC. plus low jump adds so much to his game. and most people don’t think of level 1’s very often against blanka, so they’ll go for a crossup, blanka does a level 1 direct lightning, and the trade is heavily in blanka’s favor. plus run up, whiff jab, RC electricity is solid also and sets up other mindgames after you knock your opponent down.


#16

I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. I remember long time ago seeing Choi play (back when he used N groove), and he ran and rolled numerous times. Its not suicide, its simply a risk you take. When you watch Choi or even the Japanese players, do you see them just sit back and walk back and forth poking exclusively? No. They jump in addition to poking. Oh shit jumping is suicide right? I’ve seen Choi jump at a full metered A groove Bison… if that wasn’t Choi, you’d be saying how that is suicide. There are uses for everything. The reason why everyone ditched N groove is embedded in your statement. People just talk in such retarded extremes on these forums. So back when N groove was on a slight decline. Someone probably took the whole, N groove gets beat by turtling RCer and changed it to, N groove gets destroyed by turtling RCers for dramatic effect, and then everyone decided to stop playing it. Now they are shocked that Japan actually plays N groove some.


#17

the N groove is my fav groove. i like the fact that you can increase your power and defense by pressing hp+hk. when powered up in this mode you can do a level 3 super combo if you have another power stock. i also like the fact that you can run, roll, low jump, ground recover, gaurd counter, and counter roll. i find all of these techniques useful. some of them saved my ass when fighting against a few people.


#18

When I first started playing competively, I used N-Groove. However, I started finding that K-Groove people were putting the hurt on me, so I switched to K. For the longest time, I was very critical of N-Groove, but that’s because I discovered that I was using the groove in the wrong way, and didn’t realize that some of the myths about it were untrue. I switched back to it a few months ago, and I’m playing my best CvS2 ever.

So, let’s examine a few things about N-Groove, yes?

  • It’s the only groove where you can run and roll. This means you can roll out of a run, or more importantly, roll cancel out of run. It means you can cover great distances in a hurry and attack safely once you get to where you’re going. This makes it a very good rushdown groove.

  • Though it doesn’t look it, one level in N is the same amount of meter as one level in A. This means as long as you’re attacking, you’ll always have meter. You’ll always have the opportunity to attack too, because you can brush of rushdowns with counter attacks and long-hitting specials with rolls, you will very rarely be cornered or stuck.

  • It’s also the only groove in the game where you can have a super at the ready after you land a level 3. This also means you can counter roll out of something, then punish with a level 3 super as they’re recovering. (You can also follow up a level 3 with a level 1 with some characters, which is really handy if you need more than an L3 to finish off someone.) This is a reason why you should almost always activate when you fill the meter up, because otherwise you’re wasting all the hits you’re getting in by either not filling your meter or not getting the 20% damage boost, and more importantly, using a chance to land Level 3.

  • The fact that you need to activate to do a level 3 super is not a disadvantage at all. Activation bears other fruits than the level 3 super chance: a nice 20% damage boost, for one, but more importantly, the threat that you could really put the hurt on. If you’re in a tight spot, breaking a stock will usually have your opponent back off a bit, so you could turn the tables. If they continue to press, counter roll, counter attack or do something else to get free, then use your attack boost while you’ve got it.

Many people say that N-Groove lacks anything unique or useful to make it a viable groove in the game. On the contrary, it’s the only complete groove there is. Every other groove always doesn’t have something you wish it had (usually rolling or running), but N has it all (except for air defense). Anything you throw at it, there’s a solution to it in N-Groove. Two common examples:

  • Got an A-Sakura sho-sho-shoing your guard crush away? Wait a bit for some free meter, then counter roll. She floats up harmlessly, and you have a free combo as she lands. Counter attacking will likely just trade or knock her down (or worse, they’ll bait it), but you can do anything to punish her you want, including a MAX super.

  • Is Blanka doing that damned wakeup electricity game? Wait for him to come in, and as he powers up, give him a fat counter attack. You’ll knock him down, preventing him from pressuring you as he would normally do.

Playing in N-Groove prevents from playing their normal pressure/rushdown/quick kill games. As long as you have meter, you always have options whether you are attacking or blocking. Very rarely do I find myself without stocks, and even more rarely am I pressured to death. More people should try using N seriously, it’s really a great groove.