Why do people say Viper is a high execution character?

c-viper

#1

I don’t get it.

I messed around with her in training mode for a while, and honestly found her dead easy. reverse quarter-circles and tiger knees are considered hard now?

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not knocking the character or anything. I just don’t see why people seem to put her on the same tier as like, the twins, who heavily rely on fairly advances combos, or guy, who requires mastery of run-stop timings and the like to get going.

The only semi-difficult thing to do was feint-spam, but even that only took me like 5 mins to be able to get out consistently in rapid succession.

Second point, I also think part of it is I’m a pad player.

Personally, I think Viper is noticeably easier on pad. The lower travel distance of a D-pad combined with how close all the buttons are honestly helps. it’s especially helpful with the feint spamming.

There’s a reason Krone is so good at it


#2

She’s a high dexterity characters that need very fluid long motions, like for instant air urnkicks, and most super jump cancel.
But her links are dead easy and the rest is pretty standard muscle memory stuff.

She’s not hard. She’s just very step to get into for most people used to very simple characters.
But for people that play other fighting games with that kind of advanced mechanics… meh.

But I would not say the Twins are very hard either, unless you’re doing fancy genei jin combos for fun.


#3

I messed with Viper on PS3 pad and it was easy. I cant break the barrier on stick though, and im not willing to switch back.


#4

Seismo spam and FFF combos are kinda difficult I guess. Also, you have to perform many motions in
rapid succession which scares off new players.

Some things are easier on pad and other easier on the stick, btw.


#5

Maybe I should do 2011? Wolfkrone. Use both in a tournament. Kappa


#6

Stopped reading there.

Big difference in execution between a training mode dummy that just stands there and playing against real opponents.


#7

Well thanks captain obvious. but common sense would dictate that what I meant was the nature of her execution.

Nothing she has is more tricky than say, sagat. it’s just tiger knees and half circles.

Compare that to say, a high level Fuerte or Guy which require run-stops all day, or Vega’s one-frame link combos(though it got better inultra)


#8

Ah, this is why I didn’t respond when you first made this useless thread.

Viper doesn’t require half circles. The tiger knee motion in and of itself is easy. Canceling seismos into a super jump and then canceling that same super jump into a special move [4f window] (ie HP TK) and then canceling that special move into a feint consistently is what makes it “difficult”. There is a different timing for TK feints after EACH different normal. It is not a universal timing. Viper players have to perform these motions very often throughout the course of a round. The timing of these motions can be affected by how meaty the seismo / poke was. No one is perfect, so you will mess up sometimes. That is why she is a higher execution character than most of the cast.

What’s that?

Require? Hardly. For Guy to poke with s.MK, all he has to do is press MK. For Viper, she has to press c.MK, buffer it into a TK and then feint the TK. That’s three sequences of button presses. It’s not difficult, but there are still more chances for the Viper player to mess up. Doing it too fast or too slow results in a punishable move. She has to do this with almost every normal, or lose out on frame advantage. For run > stop, the LK can be double or triple tapped, to make sure you stop. Hitting the 2 punches for a feint multiple times results in an EX TK.

No, it didn’t. Vega’s c.LP xN, c.MP is still all 1f links. Pls don’t spread bad info.


#9

…3/4 of viper’s specials are a half circle.

Do you just never use burn kicks and thunder knuckles? must be a terrible viper.

and what you’re talking about is HIGHLY ADVANCED viper play. you don’t NEED all of that to play Viper effectively, any more than you NEED to learn armor cancel ultra to play Hugo or FADing through a fireball into ultra 1for Balrog.

Feint spamming is a useful tool for Viper, but they are not her entire game. she has mixups, reversals, pokes, etc. You seem to be working under the idea that feint spam is to viper what the run command is to fuerte or Guy.

You can be a perfectly good viper without rapid seismo fake cancels. again, it’s just a single tool.

Again, Guy NEEDS run-stop. not mastering runstop means you don’t know how to play Guy. all guys universally require runstop use and mastery, it is the core of his game.

Viper, as I said, DOES NOT need seismo feints. they can be useful and certainly there is no reason NOT to use them if you can, but they are FAR from being mandatory.

Notice how 80% of that fight Krone isn’t heavily relying on feint spamming?

there is some SJ cancels here and there for a combo, but very seldom does he ever just rapid-cancel feints and SJs.

it is completely possible to play a legit Viper without making use of rapid consecutive cancels.


#10

• TK & BK are half circles now? I see, I see.
• You can use cancels into feints to gain frame advantage, not to blink like a christmas tree.
Sounds weird, but believe me.
Floor said "There is a different timing for TK feints after EACH different normal. It is not a universal timing. Viper players have to perform these motions very often throughout the course of a round. The timing of these motions can be affected by how meaty the seismo / poke was. No one is perfect, so you will mess up sometimes. That is why she is a higher execution character than most of the cast."
And you talk about shit like rapid seismo feints, a complete different topic. Did you even read what he posted?
I’d go on, but you probably wouldn’t read it anyway and talk about the weather in Australia.

To make it short, it’s pretty obvious that you don’t have a clue about Viper.
Take your time and watch Floor’s (great) tutorials.


#11

lol JUST this guys use of the word “spamming” instantly makes me not give 2 duck fucks about his opinion.


#12

Yeah, you don’t know the difference between a half-circle and a quarter half circle. Today you will learn something.
This is a half-circle -> :hcf: and this is a quarter half circle -> :qcb:

Looking at her move list: Thunder Knuckle :qcb: + :p:, Burning Kick :qcb: + :k:, & Seismic Hammer :dp: + :p:

If you can not get your info straight, no one is going to get a fuck.


#13

Honestly, when I first saw this thread, I thought you were just baiting someone into a “Viper is no harder to use than any other character” -type discussion; Figured you were trolling for self amusement or something but I wasn’t sure so I just left it alone. But then you somehow confuse the useful but not-so-critical Seismo feint “spamming” with the absolutely necessary:

  • cr.MP ~ HPTK (greatest frame adv) ~ Feint; a simple poke into recovery cancellation, which is needed because her normals are among the worst in the game

  • cr.MK ~ HPTK (greatest frame adv) ~ Feint; a simple poke which requires TK feinting just to alleviate its frame disadvantage

  • HP/cr.HP ~ HPTK ~ Feint; a punish which requires FTK feinting in order to access Viper’s max-damage and even sub-optimal-damage combos

  • Seismo/EX Seismo ~ SJC ~ :
    a) LPTK; anti-fireball

b) MPTK; juggle into HPTK, EXBK or Ultra 1 at or near the wall

c) HPTK ~ Feint; for necessary zoning, optional pressure, or just plain in-Viper’s-best-interest safety since Seismo has such high recovery

d) Another Seismo/EX Seismo; for block pressure/chip, frametrap-like setup, and/or Focus baiting > subsequent punish

e) Another Seismo/EX ~ Seismo/EX Seismo feint; for safety (see c above)

f) FADC ~ MP Super***** or Ultra 1

  • HPTK ~ Feint******; The naked, sexy, bare-ass, assumingly biracial brown-skinned FTK feint.

      • N O N - I N F E R N A L . D I V I D E R - - -

****** - Probably only as “necessary” as your need to not lose by a cringe-worthy round-ending throw in the corner. Still, as a safejump timer off of forward throw and sweep, and a way to wake up with a bit more invincibility, or avoid an oncoming mix-up, it’s far more practical a tool than previously thought. But if nothing else, getting this down will boost your confidence in your FFF execution. Which, personally, I feel is one of the largest obstacles between learning all her exploits and actually applying them in play.

***** - The Super part of point F requires Viper to land a non-EX Seismo, which you can only combo into from a counterhit HP (AFAIK). Outside of that, I wouldn’t bet on landing raw Seismo unless: 1) The person you’re fighting has been getting hit by it frequently, or 2) you set it up “right”. For example, low Forward ~ FTK feint ~ immediate Seismo on a flustered or button-happy enemy. To them, it just looks like something they should be interfering with, especially if they’re cornered. When I found Seismo > Meterless FADC > Super, I questioned it’s practicality. Until a year later, I saw Latif win a match with it, lol.

But that’s very different; he waited for the opportunity to land it before he did. He didn’t need it to win, he was just styling. Similarly, in the aforementioned 1 and 2 examples of landing a raw Seismo, the follow-up Meterless FADC into Super proooobably isn’t necessary either. Because either you’re doing so well in the match that you have full Super and even considered it in the first place, or you’re in a really tight spot asked yourself “What if…”. This means you have Ultra, silly, and EX Seismo > Meterless > Ultra 1 is more practical as well as easier to land because it can be combo’d into, even from a counterhit low Forward.
Not to mention EX Seismo goes directly into Ultra at close range without the need for a cancel or dash, which you’re more likely to land than regular Seismo anyway. The Super option was only mentioned for completion’s sake.

Aside from those exceptions, everything listed above the divider is crucial to not only know, but also implement into your game as Viper, even at mid-level play. They’re not done for flash, they’re actually imperative if you want to win consistently. Notice how none of this has to do with Seismo feint “spamming”. And there’s still a ton more that she should be doing to stay alive that aren’t directly related to TK and Seismo cancels. Such as various types of Burn Kicks. Even a careful, decent player who isn’t using those tools in their matches and only punishes with, say, Fierce/low Forward into TK and gets all his damage from Fierce > EX Seismo > SJC BK because he can’t FFF, will often get steamrolled by lower level players who’re using most other characters in the game.

So the the execution-reliant stuff that Viper players are doing throughout a match --the stuff you say is “just half circles and tiger knees” and is easier than double-tappable maneuvers by other characters-- know that they’re doing it constantly; on offense, on defense, life lead or life deficit, at close range, mid range, and even when there’s an entire screen between them and their opponent. Not just individual cancels either, but often a combination of them. You’ll see exhibit C in any Viper match, and that involves 3 different types of cancels; which, if done with the wrong, easy-to-fudge timing, will more than likely lead to the loss of 30% of her life. It doesn’t even take the nervousness involved with high-pressure situations to make a mistake that’s hard to come back from. And don’t let it be an online match. Sheeeeeeit~

If you’re near Desk-like and don’t consider her high-execution, she’s still high-maintenance even at mid-level play. Easily.

  • Ryu pokes with a safe-on-block low Forward.
  • Viper pokes with low Forward, cancels the recovery frames (because they’re Normal-, Special-, Super-, and via combo, even Ultra-punishable) with a Fierce Thunder Knuckle, then cancels the start-up frames of that (suicidal-on-block) move before it can come out. There, now she’s safe.

#14

Depends on the matchup. Here’s a video of Wolfkrone winning when he’s doing feints for 80% of the match, and losing when he isn’t:

Also features failed faints, failed flame kicks, and failed seismo chains.


#15

viper’s execution physically is not hard to perform, but consistently hitting tricky things is rough.

a match vs zangief can be lost due to one siesmo chain misinput, there aren’t many characters that get punished that hard in this game from full screen away for a minor execution error.

I lost to an akuma in tourney last month because I accidentally super jumped while canceling a seismo, and he full screen ragin demon me to end the match.

bet you weren’t thinking of those situations Kappa


#16

Well, the thread is pretty much closed, but basically to sum it up, none of viper’s individual maneuvers are all that difficult to do. It’s just when having to do all of them together against a moving opponent in a real match, you’re bound to mess something up and lose a pretty chunk of health for it. That’s why she’s a high execution character.


#17

She’s high execution as it relates to the SF4 series. That said very little in the SF4 series would be considered high execution compared to previous SF’s.


#18

Not sure if this guy was trolling but his posts were so dumb it kinda hurt my head (and I’m not even a Viper player).


#19

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO
This thread.