Why do people who dislike this game say it's random?


#1

Do they not know what the word random means? Nothing in this game is random aside from Phoenix Wright’s evidence and Hsien-Ko’s items might as well be random, because it’s highly unlikely you’re gonna get the item you want by timing your move on the exact frame.

Websters defines random as “lacking a definite plan, purpose, or pattern”

By this definition, 99.9% of the game is not random.


#2

It’s mainly due to how people don’t like the strength of XF and how the game has a lot of mix ups that you can’t block on reaction (forcing you to have to react to the set up). Especially the up/down magneto stuff and the left/right stuff with assists. The second mix up is basically like how Seth can throw a fireball and then teleport on your wake up except it takes off half your life and you can’t use FA to escape the set up. Plus the opponent doesn’t have to be grounded for the mix up to work. Some of the characters like Dante have teleports that go behind you and track you so you’re forced to get crossed up no matter how far away you are from him as long as his projectile/assist can reach that far.

It’s just a game that on a basic sense is hard to get into because you deal with stuff like Hulk pressing on H and you lose characters. Then you get to people who know how to tick command grab and teleport assist pressure with Wesker and you hate that too. Then you get to playing people who can go up and down on you with sent drones and then even if you block that set you up into a 1 frame throw mix up that will put you in a combo any way. It’s not so much that it’s all random it’s just it’s not stuff you can make sense of if you play the game casually.

You have to play the game a lot to not get opened up everytime someone goes up and down or left right on you. It requires being able to see set ups for the mix ups before they occur and reacting to them with things like air throw, stand L/M/S normal or jumping out of the assist that they’re trying to left/right you with. SFIV Balrog sit on down back is pretty much a good way to get you killed in this game. You have to react offensively to defend yourself in this game and that’s part of why the throws in this game are one frame to give you an extra tool to deal with the extremely strong air based pressure.

Your down back in this game is like what Yipes says “UP BACK”. This blocks all high/low mix ups but doesn’t protect you from left/right or dash under mix ups since you’ll be blocking the wrong way if either happens. There’s no ground moves that can’t be air blocked like in other games so they make left/right mix ups prominent to blow up sitting on up back too long. You of course still have to worry about one frame air throws and command grabs as you’re up back/chicken blocking. Plus if the person hits you with a low attack after you fall from a chicken block you’ll be considered stand blocking and get hit.

The reason Chris G is so good at dealing with the “random” situations in this game specifically is because he knows when to block, when to air throw or stand normal punish a mix up and when to just space himself away before it gets started.

I would say the most “random” thing the game presents is characters still being able to TOD you too easily just by turning on XF2/3. You pretty much have to respect the character if you aren’t playing a character that can burn out their XF. Which means you will eventually get hit and have your team start to fall even though you were doing well.

It’s the same shit as how Sagat with Ultra and 2 meters in Vanilla SFIV could just come back on any DP he landed. In Marvel the problem is still there and basically on a worse scale since the game has no rounds and turning on XF2/3 with plenty of the game’s case can just hit you with that “random” DP FADC all your life crap.


#3

People who like the game call it random too. That’s part of its appeal to them.


#4

I think it has to do with the fact that you don’t know what’s going to happen next. One min your beating someone down then as soon as you make one mistake your whole squad could be body (fuck you wesker lvl 3 xfactor into a combo and got my other two with a command grab)


#5

Pretty much in any game where the main strategies aren’t just revolved around A+B=C you’re going to have people pull the random card. This game just presents situations that are extremely hard to react to offensively a lot and you’re forced to have really good spacing and reaction to setups instead of reaction to mix ups themselves.


#6

Random, not in the literal sense.

if you play marvel and are more skilled than another person the ratio of wins to losses will never be XX-00
If you play SF4/3s/GG/CVS2 against someone less skilled than you it is very possible to win every match.

The idea that there is a mystery as to whether you will win or lose even when the other guy has 1 character left and can’t do anything outside of ABCS BBCS.
Two people can play each other, one gets one hit in and can win the entire match.

its less random in the scientific sense and more** unpredictable**.
its like how in the FG community scrub is ** novice, **overpowered/scrubby/braindead is practical/economical sometimes at a higher ratio then other characters


#7

I think it comes from the games limitless options and unpredictability. In AE at 3/4’s screen distance Ryu is probably going to throw a fireball. You know this.

In Marvel, when Dante is at 3/4’s screen away, he has more than just a fireball available to him. The game gives players a lot of options that are hard to account for.


#8

i would say that its because not only are things extremely difficult to block, but also its usually quite feasible to kill a character off of one hit. this was the reason why i stopped playing vanilla, and had a little hiatus after fighting a few too many dark weskers in ultimate


#9

People don’t like this game cause Zero sits in the air spinning like a light saber blender, duh!

I just don’t like netplay for this game personally.


#10

This. People seem to be playing routine fighter instead of expecting the unexpected. Like I remember in the Clockw0rk vs. Neo set, in one match Clock had knocked down Neo’s Sent with Doom, Sent rolls and Doom air dashes and hits him with "random"air Photon Array. Now im sure Neo didn’t see that and went WTF? If that had been Marvel 3 it would have turned from godlike move to “LOL RANDOM SUPER”.


#11

Because


#12

Because there isn’t a clear cut best answer to a situation and most of the defense revolves around never getting into that position in the first place.


#13

To add to the above, because it takes fewer good decisions to win in marvel than in most other fighting games. So the occasional lower level player making one or two correct decisions (whether intentionally or by accident) in a game against someone much better than them could be enough to take an entire match, whereas in other games, maybe all that would be doing is giving him a slight lead and delaying their inevitable loss.

It’s only an illusion of course, in a longer set the much better player will still win the vast majority of the time. But since it’s possible to occasionally take a win instead of always being completely dominated, people think that makes the game “random”, because results feel less consistent.

And then that’s coupled with the fact that people still run 2/3 rounds in this game, instead of the 4/7 in almost every other fighting game.


#14

they probably use hsien ko


#15

Because its Crazy high damage easymode combos off braindead mixups and 6 month hit confirms. It makes it easier for lets say a mediocre player to beat a good/really good one in this game because anyone can land the first hit and basically win the match. You see shitloads of upsets these days in this game whereas if you look at MvC2 the players who put in the time in effort had a definitive upper leg. Not so much anymore because this game really isn’t who is the best player over a decent length of time. Its basicaly assist + teleport, dead, incoming easy 33/33/33 mixups, dead, repeat the last step win.

Not every touch is a TOD obviously but after you complete your combo you are in most situations probably land another stupid left/right mixup into death blah blah blah.

But honestly thats what make the game fun for me. I dont take this game very serious at all… when I did I couldn’t stand it. Once you accept it for what it is (random) then you will have an easier time enjoying it.


#16

If a guy like me, can get top 32 at EVO, then yes, this game is completely random.

Like, anybody can win.

Anybody.

People say they suck at Marvel vs Capcom 3?

I tell them that they are Gods.

And I’m right.


#17

Who did you beat along the way might I ask? I remember watching you on the stream and I as like “oh shit? yoshi the chris player from the MvC3 boards… GDLK”


#18

ever since cota to mvc2, the versus series has just been random, very poor programming on the developers part. We’ve had like 15 years of them programming accidental random into the game and it has become a part of the jargon.

This game is hardly as random as mvc2\previous versus games were but there are still some slight elements of random. Wesker’s super randomly crossing up left\right. The stupid amounts of slow down that happens when your assist gets hit with an air combo and you try to move your point character during that process which sometimes involves attacking. The random amounts of slowdown that happen on the x360 which occur randomly and that fucks with the game in general. Still though, this game is 99% more accurate @ the tournament level than mvc2 was. You had to acknowledge luck before in the versus games but since mvc3, they’ve done a very good job getting rid of the random. I played mvc2 for 10 years and mvc1\xvsf before that, I know what random looks like and its hardly there for this game.

the clockw0rk super example from mvc2 is actually a setup. There are other videos of clock using that exact same trick from many many years ago along with other strider\doom players. Pretty good trick since dooms super was super fast in mvc2 and if you didn’t block before the flash when he’s in your face, you got hit. Its highly abusable and not exactly “random”.

there is a difference between durpy and random. Know the difference. This game is far easier to play @ the competitive level than mvc2 ever was and that allows more people the ability to compete. XF and top tier simple mode characters do a fantastic job removing skill from the game.


#19

Because they don’t understand the game. MvC2 seemed random as fuck to me before I started learning more stuff about it.


#20

Only the most prestigious players in the world.

And by prestigious I mean random people that I don’t know who happen to be somewhat decent but not professional player godlike.

There could be names but I didn’t take them.

So in the end, I got perhaps the easiest bracket path in the world.