Why Ibuki ammo system makes no sense (imo)

ibuki

#1

I really dislike Ibuki’s ammo system and here are some points as to why I think it makes no sense.

First and foremost if she is out of kunai she is at a SEVERE disadvantage. This means you can’t use her kunai to do certain things. Single use hadouken style harassment and releasing all kunai are bad ideas 99% of the time. You can access many resets and CA combos without releasing all kunai.

Most of the time I use the kunai in combos at point blank range. Kunai can go into v-trigger then into a reset or CA and bomb-kunai can go into a reset. So why is it a projectile? Why isn’t it a melee slash move if I am only going to use it in heavy punch range?

It is also a completely janky mechanic (imo). I constantly have to divert my attention to my kunai bar and every once in a while I have to taunt. It also uneccessarily increases the execution level of the character by having an unncessessary special that you might accidentally do.

In short, the release all kunai move, reload special and the ammo system itself all feel like unessessary mechanics when you could achieve the same design in a simpler, better way. With all these factors Ibuki’s projectile is most useful at point blank range.

Maybe I am playing this character completely wrong, if so please enlighten, me I am here to learn.

My combo list:

-works from full CMP range
CMP > Bomb-Kunai > Lcmd-dash > BMP > reset
CMP > Bomb-Kunai > Lcmd-dash > BMP > Mcmd-dash > reset other side
CMP > Kunai > V-trig > BMP > HDP > CA
CMP > Kunai > V-trig > BMP > HDP > cmd-jump > LP > MK > reset
CMP > Kunai > V-trig > BMP > HDP > Mcmd-dash > CHP > reset other side

C=crouch, B=back, cmd=command, Lcmd=light command, DP=dragonpunch(kick)

I only use kunai for these combos. The only exception is I will use a kunai by itself to get the last killing hit.


#2

Kunais are extremely fast, if Ibuki had access to unlimited ones, she could easily lock down a character fullscreen spamming HP.Kunai and having LP/MP ones charged, ready to antiair if the opponent tries to jump. Plus her juggle combo potential would skyrocket.
However I agree that the reload mechanic is really unnecessary and I’d take slower traveling kunais or scrapping kunai release specials in exchange for getting rid of the ammo system.


#3

Its like sonya in mkx. Without reload she would be op. U don’t want ibuki top tier now would u


#4

Yes. Yes I would


#5

In most fighting games, characters who are given an ammo system are due so because of different reasons. The obvious one is for balance. Imagine Johnny from GG if he had unlimited coins or Sion from Melty if she didn’t need to reload her gun. If Ibuki did not have an ammo system, she’d be ridiculous. The usage of her kunai are too good that any sort of environment where she could spam them with reckless abandon would be incredibly obnoxious. They have way too many useful applications to not be restricted in some shape or form. Now if we were still discussing Third Strike, then fine. Her play style with kunai is much different in that game mainly because of the mechanics of 3S and how linear her usage of kunai was in that game. In SF5, she can do a LOT more with them so it’s appropriate that they made a system to control how crazy she’d be with them.


#6

I think the issue is a lot of the people playing Ibuki haven’t played many anime games where strong resource tools are common place. Play more anime games and you’ll be good.


#7

I do believe her Kunai for SFV standards would be too good if they were unlimited, so I do understand the limitation aspect, and I like if only because it’s something different from SFV’s otherwise bland character design. However, I do think it’s ability to be restocked should be improved, I can think of a few ways of doing this:

  • Simply improve the reload special to be faster
  • Add an Ex variant to her kunai reload which replenishes them infinitely faster.
  • Perhaps add cancelable frames at the end of some specials like Raida, to be canceled into Kunai reload.

Ibuki isn’t the only one who suffers from non-attack moves being really difficult if not impossible to use in neutral or even after a knockdown: Alex, Mika, Urien (likely), and Juri may well run into this problem too.

I personally don’t have too much issue with managing them, but it is hard in some matchups. It also makes kunai release an absurdly biased risk-reward.

Frustration with this for me mostly boils down to the fact Ibuki’s kunai are not all created equal and it makes it hard to want to use kunai in certain situations because of it. I do think her ability to manage them will be buffered, cause it stands now – especially by fighting game standards as a whole and not SFV’s, they aren’t strong enough to be this limited. I mean her air kunai are worse than they’ve ever been, it’s the grounded ones which force this ammo limitation. Sort of annoying, I suppose


#8

I understand the need to limited the kunai as above mentioned, it would be OP if it was unlimited. however what about having it auto recharge (the meter slowing gain one kunai per time?), after spending all 6 of them, the meter would auto regen 1 kunai for every 3 seconds (add whatever seconds you think would balance it). then save the down back kick command for her spin kick when capcom adds that back in (yes, I know that’s a dream).


#9

I wouldn’t mind an EX kunai restore, she builds meter really quickly.


#10

Air EX kunai is basically the best EX kunai she’s ever had (it does too many good things and lets her get in almost for free basically). The strengths completely offset the 3S one being able to cross up at certain angles. SFIV air EX kunai was pretty bad since it was a meter burning zoning tool at best for a character that needed to get in to win.

It would be hard to retool the kunais from what they are now I think. The kunais do set up really damaging/neutral crushing things like air EX kunai, kunai VTC and although it’s a hell of a resource burn, released kunais can definitely be a strong neutral tool. There are some matchups like Gief and Fang where recharging your kunais and using them as long term zoning tools will be viable.

For the game of SFV, they’re balanced pretty well. Any want for buffing them is more just to have fun with them at the expense of most likely putting her too far above everyone else in the tiers. In GG Johnny gets 8 coins with no reload and that’s just how it works. Ibuki gets 6 kunais with a reload and she really only needs like 3 or 4 kunais to win a round. The character still has plenty of tools even without throwing the kunai.


#11

In GG, Johnny has access to ridiculously good pressure and damage when he has coins. Ibuki doesn’t get any bigger combo potential with the kunais from her basic hitconfirms or pressure without spending additional meter(s) anyways, so it’s not a fair comparison (especially when other characters in the same game don’t use additional resources to have that).
Plus Johnny is able to replenish 2-3 coins with the use of his Treasure Hunt super.


#12

Personal and imho a rational opinion is that Ibuki’s ammo system does indeed make a ton of sense for balancing purposes. The way it’s currently setup it needs to be limited or it would definitely be broken. The fundamental flaw/problem with Ibuki and this system is that she doesn’t have a single truly safe method of re-stocking even a single Kunai without having to use a kunai and 1 bar of meter a.k.a ex kunai because the recovery on her reload is obnoxiously bad. In contrast to her twin archetype Juri its comical. SF5 Juri can re-stock with impunity via wakeup, safe blockstrings, or out in the open because of quick recovery. Ibuki should have in year 2 an ex refill that stocks at least 3 but no more with Juri like recovery that’s seperate from her reload. For the guy with the post above me though that’s false. St.mp, cr.lp, kunai release (requires hp charge and 5 kunai), dash, hk.kazekiri = 251/348 no traditional meter and 272/348 with ex raida for 1 meter. Simple confirm that was never listed. If her kunai wasn’t limited she would be doing that and simple single one button/shimmy confirms like st.mp/cr.mp/cr.hp, kunai release for 264/294 and up without touching traditional meter.


Ibuki Season 2017 Changes
#13

Treasure Hunt as far as I know is a newer super he got in Xrd. He’s been top tier in other GG games without it, just relying on the 8 coins.

Like I said, there are some characters and situations where you can viably reload at least 2 or 3 kunais and this is considering you really don’t need to use more than 3 or 4 kunais to win a match. When people learn to use Ibukis other tools better, you won’t really need a lot of kunais to win a match any way. 4 kunais should be what you need to win a match and the rest should just be something you use with your own judgment if you know they can help you win the match faster (use a couple to go under fireballs or space someone out for pressure later).

Killer Instinct is another game with quite a few resource characters. People started to complain a lot going into Season 2 and 3 because they completely changed up how the resources worked for a lot of characters when for all purposes intended, the resources were already working pretty well for those who mained the characters. It lead to a situation where people were arguing over which version of the character had the better resource building.

The most I could see Capcom budging with is adding an 7th or 8th stock to her kunais, but that would instantly make EX/air EX kunai more OD than it already is. That move is really strong and balancing it with the reload and standard kunais is done pretty well so far.


#14

I hate the the idea of an ex restock, i’d rather see a small baseline buff to the charge times


#15

A small buff that makes her kunais reload jut a little faster would be nice. I don’t think its a good idea to waste meter to reload. In a situation where I need to hold on to ex meter, cause a knock down to reload 2-3 kunais is a much better alternative imo.


#16

Truthfully it doesn’t matter the wishlist differences for all of us Ibuki users. She just needs “truly” safe measures to get at least 1 kunai back which atm she doesn’t which is silly. Right now her reload is entirely contingent on passive match flow. I’d take any buff in that regard as long as it guarantees her at minimum 1 safely.


#17

It would be silly to not have a reload mechanic with the way the kunais are in this game. And yeah, anime games do this all the time, it’s not the trait that kills the character.


#18

I say its best to give it till Capcom Cup Finals to see if pro Ibukis are really losing considerable matches to the kunai/storing mechanic. If people seem to be winning the majority of their matches without burning their kunai stock, odds are Capcom won’t budge with any changes


#19

Isn’t that a self-fulfilling prophecy?
I mean you design a system where you have very limited ammo and to reload it, you have to stop your momentum and do an unsafe animation command.

I’m no pro, but knowing that, why would a pro-player get into that kind of situation? They would only train themselves to use the kunai when necessary. Meaning Capcom probably will not do anything to it since Pro players won’t reveal how bad it is.

I’m with the guys above, I just want to have a way to get JUST ONE kunai in a safe way without compromising my hard earned momentum in a match.


#20

Pro players can also reveal how strong the kunais already are and end up using tech and knowledge to come up with rather safe scenarios to reload that lesser players weren’t thinking of. It’s too early to be worried about this in general.