Why is Gouken considered bad/not solid in AE?

Hi guys. I use T.Hawk, and I have a close friend who I play against regularly who uses Gouken. I have to say that I hate this matchup INTENSELY. My friend tells me Gouken is not a good character in AE, but so far I’m not seeing it. Idk if I have a hard time seeing it because T.Hawk is at a clear disadvantage when fighting Gouken, but why is he considered bad/not solid in AE? Are his moves too unsafe? Does he not have solid answers for many situations? Do his normals lack priority? Can anyone be really specific on why he’s not good? I thought he became a better character overall do to his buffs.

Lol T.Hawk. Gouken is probably his worst matchup. My advice. Don’t jump. Ever. Walk and block until you push gouken in the corner or in close where its your game. Your EX is gold here, the EX forward condor tackle thing will be a lifesaver for you since its projectile invincible, but dont overestimate its range and projectile invincible frames. FBs will still pick em off if you dont do it close enough.

His normals suck, his special sucks.
Yea thats pretty much it, which is actually everything.
Moves that Gouken has that are good
sweep, its safe.
j mp, fast, good a2a, cancelable to tatsu.
hk, semi decent poke.
fireballs are decent

thats pretty much it. Demonflip is ok, Akuma’s is better by a longshot.

The thawk matchup is a good one for gouken because hawk doesn’t have a lot of tools for getting in on gouken. That matchup lets gouken’s zoning game shine. But go look at some videos of gouken playing a character that can’t be zoned, like yun or elf, and you’ll see some serious problems. Also look at videos agaisnt characters that have spammable armor breakers, like adon and sagat, and you’ll see some more serious problems. The basic issue is that gouken is awesome against some characters, but horrible against many more. Also, hit footsies aren’t the best. Too many of his good pokes are too slow, and he ends up getting counterhit often if he tries to play that game too much.

your opponents will complain about the things that are the best about your character.
after the backthrow nerf, gouken’s opponents have nothing to complain about.
he’s basically a dan-style character now but with a really good fireball.

I think he has much worse matchups. Blanka eats his lunch free.

Gouken is S Tier!!! And when I mean S, I mean SHIT.

But that mofo is cool as hell and he might have the best cross up oki on the game!!!

i don’t know if your crossup game can be considered that good without a 3 frame spammable low into knockdown or a command throw, but i agree that he is cool as hell.
i’m looking forward to the next version of sf4, i’ve heard that this won’t be the last.

knowing my luck, they’ll release a balance update that makes his normals have priority in footsies, fixes kongo and makes the dive kick overhead again… but it won’t be released for pc.

I saw you play marn on pc on his stream a moment ago.

lol ya. it was sad :slight_smile: i’m uploading a recording of it to youtube right now.
I’m not a bad player, but marn just outclasses me by a mile.
plus I don’t have any experience with a good viper.

lol yea that was free, I’m gonna post a few loses of my own today, haven’t been playing much gouken lately and my new pad is janky so sorry for execution errors in advanced.

True indeed. I was speaking of the cross up being one of the best b/c his recovery after sweep you have several different timings that allow you to attack front side or back side and still be able to land per safe jump. The fact that he has 0 low game is ballz, would have been a lot cooler if back throw was a command grab b/c he’d have a legit 50/50.

EX Flip after cross up, let’s him punish most reversals though. It just sucks sometimes b/c we have to resort to gimmicks and opponent fuck ups instead of being able to hit confirm into whatever we’d like.