Why is Spiral still ranked highly?


#1

it’s kind of funny that whenever people mention tiers in mvc2, they talk about the big 4 first (sent, storm, cable, mag, not in that order), then the second set of top tier characters right underneath them (like strider, cyclops, doom, SPIRAL, BH, etc).

but why is spiral still considered in that second group? i thought the last serious spiral player was duc, and that was years ago. guard cancelling nullifies the spiral/sent lockdown, but that doesn’t take away as much as people think IMO. i’m guessing the real reason people don’t play spiral anymore is that sentinels have become too good for her to get around and call swords. spiral/cyc or spiral/capcom could probably handle a flying sentinel, but then you’re basically left with only sent, storm, or cable for that middle spot to still have a good team. or has rushdown become so advanced that unless your trapping team is lockdown or close to it (aka strider/doom), you’re just gonna get rushed down, and spiral’s low vitality surely doesn’t help. or maybe it’s a combination of factors, i’m not sure.

so what is the reason people don’t play spiral anymore? if a character isn’t being played, then why is that character still considered high in the tier rankings?

thanks


#2

My best guess is due to her teleporting abilities to even get out of the path of an AHVB if you time it right. She seems like a really hard character to learn, and I was tempted to start using her but then I realize how hard it would be to learn.


#3

I still play spiral, and I seriously think she’s in the top 5. She can’t lockdown anymore, but with a little anticipation knives can be devastating.
Storm is not an easy matchup, wether she’s in play or waiting for DHC, but again, spiral has the tools against runaway and can easely stop storm from protecting her assists.

flying sent is a pain, but since i play Spiral with Capcom as my main, and not just a battery (I play Spiral/sent/capcom) it’s not so bad. Without an AAA loading is a bit trickier.

Cable is a joke.

Mags, well, ether you can block rushdown or you can’t.
IMO spiral sent capcom has the tools to keep him at bay. Not an easy matchup though. None of them are. That’s prolly why nobody plays spiral.

Anything that leads up to a ground combo with spiral and it’s GGPO for that character though, and that’s what i like about her too. :slight_smile:


#4

interesting, i thought spiral’s inability to inflict big damage was one of the other reasons she isn’t played too much anymore. i’m guessing you do some ground string DHC’d into sentinel or what?

and how does spiral do well against cable besides teleporting through AHVB’s? wouldn’t loading swords be tough? because if you super jump and call swords, cable can jump up and shoot you, or if you call capcom to cover swords, he can just shoot capcom and put you in blockstun right? i don’t understand how spiral does well against cable.

peace


#5

Some of that, yes. I don’t DHC too often, unless i can kill the character in play with the combo. Here’s what i usually use.
[no swords] lk-mk-hp+sent drones, QCF+PP super, DHC if needed.
**[Swords]**lk-mk-hk-3 swords-dash lk-mk-hk-3 swords-dash lk-mk-hp+sent drones, then :
-load swords, dash, repeat above combo, then snapback character, or if in corner, launch to try the throw semi-inf.
or
-qcf+PP, dhc into sent
or
-lvl3 super activate, dash lk-d.hk SJ.lk-mk-HP throw super.
or
-there’s other stuff like using the power up or speed up while sent drones are hitting to do ether a damaging corner combo (like the semi inf, but tech hit is kinda easy), or the speed up inf., but the damage is weak on that.

Well, Cable can’t AHVB your assists with impunity, so use them to cause blockstun to load. I usually play it safe against cable, trying to lure his assist out and stuff. Even while throwing knives, you can teleport an ahvb on reaction , so throwing knives is relatively safe.


#6

I still use her.
I’d rank her around 6 - 8th. She’s still highly ranked because she does well against magneto, cable (wins but it takes alot of work), Ironman, BH, etc…

Some of the reasons she isn’t as popular

  • damage output
  • sentinel
  • takes alot more work to use effectively (i.e blocking alot, patience). You need to be fairly dedicated.

Also there haven’t been any vids around of Duc for a good 2(?) years :frowning:
Banshee - are there any match vids of you floating around?


#7

cuz she can give many handjobs simultaneously…


#8

She does well because some people (most notably Duc) actually put in some work and found out how to beat the more common characters… 2, 3 years ago as you say. There was some groundwork laid down, and the lazy b@stard general public didn’t have to work quite so hard to get somewhere with her (remember the Dark Sakura 0-frame teleport bandwagon? haha).

Guard cancelling became public knowledge & that hurt her somewhat, but everybody still remembers the praises sung in her name back during the Duc era (for lack of a better term).

This could have happened to most any character, and probably should have happened to Dhalsim - at least on paper. But it didn’t.

Anyway, once conventional wisdom gets established, it’s near impossible to change. Big 4 hasn’t changed. A couple of characters have raised some eyebrows, but nothing’s really changed. So here we are.

And that’s the real reason Spiral is still ranked so highly. Even with almost nobody playing her nowadays, and even with most people still not knowing what all the characters are truly capable of (myself included).


P.S. “sentinel” isn’t really a valid knock against any character; Sent gives everybody h3ll, even another Sent. :stuck_out_tongue:

P.P.S. Once you get much past Big 4 and the common assists, rankings get too fuzzy to have any meaning & start reflecting individual play as much as anything else IMHO.


#9

Banshee

nice combos, although i find the timing on the loaded knives one to be kinda tricky. but when you launch into the level 3, is that unescapable? or can your opponent mash or something? same thing with spiral’s launch, magic series, dp + p air throw move, is that unescapable?

and i’d imagine a good counter team to spiral would be cable/storm/cyclops for obvious reasons. you teleport, you get hailstormed, and cyclops would be good to break your traps and push you away.

Buck Jones

so basically it takes too much work to win with spiral and people would rather play the big 4 plus random assist? i agree that people are too lazy and would rather x-copy something or do a reset than learn a lesser played character inside and out.

it still seems that rushdown would give spiral huge problems, and considering how advanced magneto has become as opposed to 2 years ago, maybe that’s a big reason people don’t play spiral. all that work with zoning and trapping gets equaled out by one random launcher, then infinite, then reset, then ggpo spiral.

peace


#10

spiral is annoying. that counts for a lot in marvel. as long as you can keep your opponent away, spiral will rape you. and if not, there is usually 5 bar for cable or sentinal to work with.

and if you can beat the first character clean and have 4 bar, you can always guard break into her grab super dhc into sentinal, and another character bites the dust. she’s too good. :slight_smile:

unfortunately, as popoblo said, the rushdown has gotten to the point where just getting the first set of knives is a pain.


#11

Unescapable… but if your timing is sloppy, your opponent can throw you before you throw them. **

The lack of meter for cable would be something i’d try to abuse. But it does limit Spiral’s teleporting ability.

Augmint

Vids? I really don’t know. Haven’t been to a big tourney in over a year. Last big one i remember is t3.


#12

:lol: :lol: :lol:

best answer so far.

but seriously, shes still very good against magneto, still excellent against cable.

she has trouble against storms runaway and sentinels laser spam.

the circle swords are good against storms runaway especially when backed by commandos assist. u can knock her out of her hailstorm by a stray knife and you can teleport out of the hail without takin chip damage although it might put you in a bad position afterwards.

against sentinel its really tough though especially when he laser spams. pin him down with an assist, and try to whittle away with swords. u cant fully trap him at all. since you are usin spiral and building all those meter (and possibly gettin hit in the process), chances are cable will be in your team. counter ahvb is really helpful in this fight.

but her biggest problem is that she doesnt deal enough damage and she cant make a come back. thats why spiral is rarely used as 2nd in a team.


#13

Because she counters Team Scrub…

Hope that helps.

  • Geronimo

#14

A counter. Thats a big call. Who’s spiral did you base that on?:confused:


#15

I’d like to know as well.

Granted, my spiral isn’t crash hot - but Sent beams tear right through her.

Weak spiral mixup.

call swords, dash, s.fp + call drones, teleport to the other side, dash (drones hit), c.lk, c.hk, /\ sj.lk, sj.mk, qcf+lk, DP-throw. Works on people who think you’re trying to trap.


#16

MadBooFace and dj-b13.


#17

I searched for MadBooFace’s posts - & your right - he said spiral can take down sent but he didn’t POST ANY STRATS.
I still don’t think its a counter - Kuan posted in the same thread - said he didn’t lose to spiral in casuals at evo.

Maybe he’s got something unique - but I’d have to see matches to be convinced. Sent only needs a few frying pans, and a fast fly - spiral can’t make ANY mistakes and needs space to reload (and MadBooFace said he wins by zoning).

Hell, if you know what they do, feel free to share.:stuck_out_tongue:


#18

i don’t get it, team scrub still has sent/capcom. and what team is spiral being used in to counter team scrub? spiral/cable/sent or spiral/sent/capcom or something else?


#19

First, I would like to apologize for the late-ness of my reply. Now, I don’t know the EXACT strat of how MBF does it, but I have witnessed him do it a couple times. So I guess I’ll jus’ share the gist of what I know/what he’s told me.

  • You have to have HARDOCORE patience to even try this match-up.
  • Wait 'til you have a COMPLETELY safe openning to load swords (i.e. when you hit them w/ an AAA).
  • If played right, this match-up is basically chip damage vs. chip damage, if you “out-chip” Sentinel (which is A LOT of work), you’ll win.
  • As for the zoning, you put swords in places so that it restricts Sentinel from flying, or start from flying. For example, if you hit them w/ AA, load, pause (wait for Sentinel to fall), then super jump and throw out a couple of swords, land, call Sentinel <Y>, throw the rest, re-load, then start a couple reps of trap for chip, Sentinel’s c.hp isn’t a factor anymore because he’ll be hit or forced to block before before the beam even comes out.
  • Having CapCom w/ Sentinel also becomes irrelevant because he can only hurt you if you’re close enough to be hit by him. Zone Sentinel the hell away from you, and CapCom is useless…well, that’s not completely true, he can be used as a shield for the swords, which is risky anyways.
  • If you’re still worried about CapCom, snap’em in.
  • For teams, I guess it’s by player preference. If you have confidence in a Sentinel/CapCom mirror match, play Spiral | Sentinel | CapCom. If you want Cable in the fight, play Team Duc #2. Note, Spiral | Sentinel | Cyclops is also a good team.
  • After Sentinel is gone, Cable vs. Spiral is about 7-3 or 8-2 (I think), in Spiral favor.
  • Note, Spiral actually does pretty well vs. all Sentinel/CapCom teams. But the obvious exception to that is Santhrax. Since Storm’s Pro. assist, takes away Spiral’s main attack/chip angles, and Storm vs. Spiral is like a 7-3 or 6-4 match-up, in Storm’s favor.
  • Using the dash-in s.hp trap is still worth using for a couple of reps every now and then, because since not a lot of people play Spiral, 1.) most players don’t know how to GC out of it anyways, 2.) GC-ing out of it isn’t all that easy (but by no means hard), or at least isn’t as easy as people say, and 3.) it’s probably the safest way for Spiral to chip and build meter at the same time.
  • Any c.lk or light hit [that connects] in general, should result in a c.hp + drones, snap-back, or tagout [requires swords].
  • HP Throw A LOT. Then mash the shit outta it. Use Tick, dash-in, empty jump, or whatever. Best to mix-up w/ your sword throwing and trapping.

Hope that helps.

  • Geronimo

P.S. I’d like to say sorry in advanced to MBF for sharing a lot of his Anti-Scrub strats w/o asking him first.


#20

okay Geronimo pointed me out to this thread, and he already gave a lot of good advice…basically you zone sentinel by reacting to whatever he does like geronimo said. you don’t have to believe me, but when i played justin at FFA this year he got zoned for a good 3-4 reps of my zone, if i hadn’t missed a sword call due to execution, his sent may have died. but playing a genius such as justin you can guarantee he did not let me call out swords another time…

edit: justin was team scrub, i was team duc.