Why No RJ45-based N64 adapter


#1

There are quite a few holes in the RJ45 collection. Genesis and 3DO is becuase there’s not enough lanes of traffic to deal with a 9-pin joystick. Systems older than Genesis will also benefit from a 15 lane Paleo adapter.

The biggest mystery is why there is no N64 adapter for either RJ-45 based connectors and the PCBs that use them as well as the PS2-> other machine adapters I find on Tototek for systems older than PS1 and other places too.

Is the reason why there’s no RJ45-based N64 adapter is because a) there the code is not broken yet, b) there’s more than 8 independent controller streams, or c) the lack of fighting games that are still played today compared to PS1 and Saturn?

If I had to suspect, the biggest reason is C. My question is, are there enough games that justify the fight stick, even though I only got 2 fight games, Mortal Kombat Trilogy and Killer Instinct Gold. I don’t know how many games would benefit from a digital stick besides fight games, But if it’s just a pin swap, and the code has been cracked, and there’s 8 lanes of traffic or less, someone should have made an N64 RJ45 adapter. Why is there none yet?

The closet thing I found was a Raphnet Gamecube-> N64 adapter. I assume it’d be more likely to work with an RJ45 GameCube connector, but I don’t know if it will work with an RJ45 PS2 adapter then an external PS2->GC adapter, because double converting is usually not that reliable unless there’s no electronics in one step.

By the way does anyone sell an RJ45 Game Cube adapter? Does anyone know how to get an N64 working with a discrete fight stick, and have the analog be actuated digtially?


#2

The Brook Retro board has GameCube support. I’ve been wondering about N64 support myself.


#3

Far as I know there been no support for the N64.
There isnt much of a place for the N64 in this scene as the fighters offered on the N64 are sparse and there far better offerings on other systems that came out about the same time (PS1 and Saturn)


#4

I understand not too many people buying a fightstick for the N64, unkess they’re an MK Trilogy nut who has to have Shang Tsung morph into any possible character, not just a predefined 3 you select from, as on the Saturn and Playstation version.

"Saturn Memory Card comments

(Even though a special Memory Card for the Saturn large enough to hold all players looks and moves would be possible. it worked for X Men Vs Street Fighter (at least the Japanese Saturn Version, thankfully Sega systems are the easiest to play any region on an other region’s console. In America, you got Game Genie for Genesis, third party foreign adapters including ones with Mega Memory for Saturn, {which Sega of America was actually encouraging, when US Sega gave up on the Saturn, saying that was the only way to get new games, anything to sell a backlog of Saturns,} and the DC-X disc for Dreamcast. All are non-surgical ways to play foreign games on US Sega Systems. By the way, if you have a US 32XCD, can you play foreign Sega Cd, 32X, and 32XCD with a Game Genie, or just Genesis? I don’t have foreign games to try it with. ) but in there, you only had 4 possible fighters in one match, 2 at a time. If Shang Tsung can be ANY fighter that would mean there has to be 38 characters loaded in the Quick Cart. Luckily most characters are move-wise identical except for 3 specials and fatalities. Most of the data would go towards looks of characters. Imagine if you had to access 38 characters as diverse move-wise as Street Fighter characters?!?

The instant morphs into everyone is the one reason why the Nintendo 64 is the best version fo Mortal Kombat Trilogy. I’ve only heard rumors about how they do that on the PS1 and Saturn versions. ( I heard there is an option for either “now loading screens” or 3 user-predefined instant morphs.)

Killer Instinct is also a good game to play. Other than that, despite popular opinion on this website where joysticks are ONLY for fighting games, there may be other games besides fighters that might work well on Digital sticks for the N64. (looks at current N64 collection)

Then again, I may be stretching for games that SCREAM digital joystick, but I’m thinking of Ms Pac Man Maze Madness (have that for Dreamcast, not Saturn) Ready to Rumble 1 and 2 (I have 1 for DC, 2 for N64) either Aerofighters Assault or Armorines (I forget, whichever of the 2 was an overhead shooter, the other was first person) Wetrix + So 3 games in my collection.

I could justify it for a Tetris game, a Williams Retro Colection, a Namco Retro colection. Robotron 64,

Other fighters

Wasn’t Clayfighter something on N64? If you thought that was bad… RIse of the Robots, the hype was World Trade Center big, and its quality was like jumping off the top with no parachute. I can’t believe it actually had a sequel. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ok, maybe I didn’t make the case for an N64 fight stick, but if it’s going to do everything from the NES to the Switch, if the only thing limiting its production is demand, let me say the N64 version of MK trilogy is the best version of MKT, and the ONLY version to play if you use Shang Tsung. If these adapters cost $10-20, and someone’s figured out the discrete input -> N64 controller language conversion already, then why not support it.

By the way, I’ll try my PS2 stick -> GameCbue adapter -> n64 adapter from Raphnet and report how well it works for a real PS2 stick. If ti works it shoud work for an RJ45 adapter, and an N64 RJ 45 Adapter is therefore not necessary.

But if this doesn’t work, I may have to skip the PS2 step and try RJ45-> straight to Gamecube, and then from there the raphnet GC->N64.

Let’s hope it doesn’t require a direct RJ45 adapter.

P.S. I tried, but you can’t hide details within details and nest them.


#5

Pokémon Puzzle League, though.


#6

Dr. Mario, Magical Tetris, come to mind. Puzzle games play best with a stick.

KI Gold back in the day was something you wanted to play with a stick. No need for it now though.

OP, use project boxes with DB15s and stop thinking you can reinvent the wheel.


#7

I just going to file his whole thread under “NO ONE CARES”

electricgrave has the bests idea


#8

About the stick. There is currently no RJ-45 N64 Adapter. I got a 3 step plan. 2 of the steps invovle a Raphnet Game Cube -> N64 converter. One is currently coming via mail. I’ll first test it with an actual Game Cube controller works on an N64 cosnole. if it does then it’s a question of third party compaitbility. if it doesn’t Raphnet’s got some ’spainin’ to do.

  1. Since I’m planning on getting some sort of RJ45 PCB, and it costs more in labor to hire a joystick wirer than to buy an adapter, I already have a PS2-> GC adapter, so I can put a PS2 RJ45 adapter in that adapter, and buy Raphnet GC->N64 adapter, and see if that works.

  2. that MAY NOT work because there is a double conversion. If that doesn’t work, I’ll get a GameCube RJ45 adapter if I can find one. If the RJ45 is read exactly like a first party controller for the purposes of converters, then if number 1 doesn’t work, number 2 should.

  3. If it finally doesn’t work, there’s hiring a joystick modder to wire up an N64 controller to a discrete input setup is the only option. There’s only one problem I see, if the game accepts only analog movements, like Metal Slug Anthology for Wii, and I predict I can find many others, even ones where degrees and angles don’t matter like Tetris, Pokemon Puzzle, etc…, I either have to find a Matthew Gummo-type arrangement, where digital inputs map to analog controls, but since Matthew Gummo is already busy doing touring fight stick ambulatory, and I don’t have any other name of a person who can do that specialized fight stick job, I guess I’l accept the default N64 controller for those games.

I guess I’ll test it once I get it in the mail.


#9
  1. Chaining adapters only causes problems
  2. Ralph net adapters are intended for 1st party devices, a Multi system board with a RJ45 out might not work.
    The MC Cthulhu needs to identify and connect to the console in order to work, I am sure the same can be said with the PS360+ and Brooks Retro board.

#10
  1. Yes I know that chaining is not guarantee to work premanently. I noticed problems chaining PS2 controller -> PS3 adapter -> Switch via Coov adapter works for a while, with a full 8 buttons, but after about 10 minutes there’s temporary control problems.

But Chaining Ps2-> GameCube adapter -> Wii U official Game Cube Port Adapter -> Switch Via USB does work. I was able to beat a CPU level 4 with a no-lost-rounds run including beating Akuma 2 straight with Ryu in USF2FC. I only had access to 7 buttons, but I manually did Ryu’s Super with (Q+M+H) P/K with just 6.

Mega Man 11 broke down with the first setup after 10 minutes. If the second setup lasts for 20-25 minutes, then it should be stable enough for a tournament.

  1. Then again it might. You don’t know if you don’t try. These things are supposed to be recognized as standard controllers. If I’m the one desperate enough to try it, and noticed those two above factors, I might as well report the result and (hopefully) tell you I found a good N64 solution for Fight Sticks. If it doesn’t work, it would serve as a specific warning. But I got 3 or 4 routes to try.

Speaking of which, the Raphnet adapter came from Canada today. Time to try it out. Stay tuned.

By the way, since the Wii U and Switch natively read a Game Cube controller with a first party adapter, would that be considered a better way to connect the stick than if I had a third party Wii U Game Cube Port adapter? Would that make it essentially a single converison from PS2 to Game Cube, and then all the rest of the stuff is internal Nintendo stuff? (even though the controller is third party knockoff PS2-> GC Adapter, it’s electronically the same as a first party Game Cube controller.)


#11

Problem is you are ignoring how these controllers all work fundamentally.

NES and SNES controllers use a Simple shift register as a encoder
Turbo Grafix/PC Engine uses a Multiplexer
Saturn, PS2 and GC has their own priority serial connections with protocols exclusive to that system
So on and So on.
All these first and the licensed 3rd party controllers do is be a controller for that one and only one system.
A PS2 controller can only be a PS2 controller and all it do is be a PS2 controller.

The MC Cthulhu, PS360+ and Brooks Retro board uses a variant of the one of the many programmable arduino clones, they don’t sit there and send normal serial data, they have to first talk to the console to see what the console is, identify it as said console then switch to said console mode. Especially with more advance serial connections like USB, a handshake has to be made first.

With many adapters, the adapters dont act like a console they expect the controller to do what that controller always should do, thus these boards just sit there not knowing what system they are interfacing with.
The Board never does the handshake and sits there wasting electricity.

Its like this a PS2 controller only speaks in PS2, A Saturn controller speaks Saturn; and so on.

MC Cthulhu, PS360+ and Brooks Retro board speaks multiple languages, but they have to he told HELLO in a language so they know what language to speak back to.

Many adapters don’t speak, they only listen, thus the Multi system retro boards have no clue what language to use.


#12

I knew there might be a chance it might not work. I figured if it doesn’t work, I can sell it on ebay, undercut n shipping US->US vs Canada-> US. I may loose a couple bucks, but it was worth getting a definitive answer.

My complaints

First of all, why did versions 2 and 3 take out the beeps. I can’t keep my eye on the computer monitor AND the GC->N64 Dongle and watch for flashes without missing something.

Second it was designed to work with a GC controller. Even if it did work according to plan, I’d still have to know what PS2 button maps to what function on the Game Cube, and THEN translate that to N64 for Killer Instinct and MK Trilogy.

Third, I don’t know whehter it’s the fault of the adpater, or if it was a misprogramming by me, (yes you actually have to program these things using a 2 step process of assigning buttons to funciion on a website, then typing in an least 20 character code of 6 possible characters, namely the button presses.)

At least if it beeped I know if I did something wrong. I was flying blind. When I played it was a mess. The instructions don’t tell you when it’s in play mode, amnd when it’s in programming mode. It’s supposed to go into play mode every time you deny and resupply power to the joystick. But I don’t know whehter the flashing lights means play mode, or programming mode.

I figure it was worth a try. If I undercut raphnet on both shipping and the retail price, i could sell it for $25 to someone who wants to use it to replace a broken N64 analog control. Because some “double translations” are like playing a game of telephone, something gets messed up from the start to the end the more steps it takes, ( I found one that didn’t, PS2-> GC-> Switch via USB, but the GC-> Switch is considered a first party translation, not some slapdash job, so that’s the exception, not the rule.)

fora few bucks more, I can get a real N64 pad pad-hacked. I figure there are 4 directions, 6 face buttons, 3 shoulder buttons and one start button, everything except the analog would be mapped with 14 connections. Plus ground and Voltage gives me 16 cnenctions. At $2 a connection my guy is charging that’s $32, so I pay a little more, but at least know it works.

Analog on N64: Worth It?

As for the analog, are there any N64 games that require an analog stick, but is just a lazy way to program a 4 or 8 way d-pad? I’m looking at you Wii Metal Slug Anthology, but thats a Wii game wth a Game Cube controller. Hopefully every game that is a 4-way or 8-way game works perfectly fine with the d-pad. If I need the analog stick for something, I might have to get it @gummowned and have Matthew Gummo wire the digitals to the analog. Problem is he’s busy with fight stick ambulatory live at tournament sites.

Luckily most systems don’t need the Gummo touch, or a similar touch form someone else. The Brook, Cthulhu, and PS360+ all have Digital to Analog conversions for all the systems.
So the only big analog hole that needs to be filled is N64. Saturn, doesn’t have it, but Saturn analog games are designed to not just be a cheap substitute for digital like some games on the N64 are. Atari 5200 games can be fight-stick-ized by dismantling a 15-pin PC joypad, leting the intrnal PCB do the work, then use the Bohoki adapter, found on Atari Age use Bohoki’s posts.

Just wondering what N64 games you are 4/8 way but use the analog stick in a cheap way. Anyone know? I’ll see if they’re titles worth hiring @gumowned for, assuming he’s still in the analog digitization business.


#13

Really just better off pad hacking and N64 controller and making a dedicated stick for it tham trying to make an adaptor.


#14

@d3V, I agree, I’m going to just get it pad hacked. It’s only a couple bucks more, and is more likely to work when done properly. I just thought versatility would be worth trying the Raphnet, for things like using the joystick/d-pad to control the analog stick without hiring @gummowned or a similar pad hacker.

Someone had to try it, just call me the guinea pig. I couldn’t find anyone to do the digital-> analog hack. it was worth it to not be out of that.

Depending on if there are any games that “only” use the thumb stick, BUT use it in a 4/8 way directiotal / 1 intensity + neutral way, one might need an analog thumb pad digital hack. I don’t know how many games would qualify as that, because most games on the N64 are either analog in nature, or if digital, use the left d-pad.

So the real question what games use the analog stick but WOULD BE better if it used the d-pad? An example of one on the Wii is Metal Slug Anthology.