Why Should Back Dashing Make You Invincible?


#1

Im just curious why they did this in SF4. I think the game has way too many mechanics in it.


#2

Because this game also has things like an unblockable lv3 focus attack and for characters without a good reversal/charge character reversals it would create some interesting and possibly inescapable situations/loops


#3

So they made purposeful unblockables, and then made a mechanic to escape it that can also be used to not take damage from fireballs at anytime.


#4

wait what? How would someone be able to backdash through a fireball? the inv. wears off way too fast Oo


#5

A guy I play with was able to time it right.


#6

You’re using *“unblockable” *in the same context as *“hard to blockable setups” *which are two very different things. Street Fighter has already had legitimate “purposeful unblockables” like command grabs since SF2. Focus adds an extremely interesting and beneficial aspect to SF4, filling a large gap that would be there in it’s absence.

Take the Bison vs Rose matchup for example, as a Bison player when I am outside of my own cr.LK range, but inside Rose’s cr.MP range, I don’t have a whole lot of options. My best poke in that range is my 5f cr.MK, and in theory it should get beat every single time, making it a risk to throw it out there at that range. From here I have two options, either A. use my walk speed to readjust my positioning, putting me at the optimal spacing for st.HK or st.MK. B. Readjust my positioning to whiff punish the cr.MP.

But since we’re playing Street Fighter 4, I have a third option, now I can walk into that range that Rose likes to cr.MP at and start charging a focus. If the Rose player takes the bait and I’m at the tip of that cr.MP range, I can actually release my Focus to catch her before she can do anything to me. It’s actually really neat. This is a pretty rigid example, and it’s a lot of theory, but there are situations where Focus is a very good answer to certain problems, for instance doing ANYTHING vs Dhalsim. Focus gives a lot of characters with weaker footsies an option to get through strong pokes like Bison st.HK or Ken’s step kick. That’s one of the reasons why some players hate Adon’s st.HK, though it’s slower than Bison’s st.HK it also cannot be focused, making it hard to deal with sometimes. A shoto cr.MK seems damn near unbeatable on the ground until you learn that you can focus dash through the cr.MK and throw them before their fireball can start up.

Overall it’s actually a really nice mechanic to have, the unblockable part of it is actually probably one of the weaker points of FA. I think you may or may not be somewhat salty about some online you just played, but it’s actually a really nice mechanic to have.


#7

i just wanna point out that canceling crMP into ex spiral will beat anything you do if they react to crMP getting focused

anyway focus is a pretty poorly executed mechanic, poorly balanced, and it is also one of the reasons why backdashes are invincible.
they add a little bit to footsies but i just can’t see why characters like fei long and evil ryu have such good focus and others have such bad focus. similarly, the answers to focus aren’t very balanced across the board either - making some characters have to play around focus much more differently, as they might not have a very good focus breaker.


#8

Thanks guys. I have to get going so Ill read more thoroughly later. But I just want to say that I mainly play ST nowadays and KOF. But the place where I can play fighting games nowadays is a friends place and we invite others to play. Hes big into SF4 and with ultra coming out Im starting to actually play it now. Theres a lot I dont like, but I do like Oni, I have no clue why people slept on him, hes a cool looking character and has a lot different style than Akuma. Hopefully Delayed Wakeup will be worked around somehow or thrown out all together sometime down the road. That mechanic is just not good to me.


#9

I backdashed an Oni ex ball the other day while in the corner, and got the round for it.
Feels great. I wish dackdash would beat DP consistently though. This unescapable DP to end round is silly.


#10

Not really sure how you’re talking about playing ST and then complaining about invulnerable backdashes and level 3 focus in SF4.

No offense, but when ST has nearly inescapable tick throw setups, then SF4’s few invul frames on backdashing is not a problem.


#11

Haha if you could consistently backdash through fireballs then this would be the worst game ever.


#12

I can backdash through Shinku Hadoken. I’m not joking, I really have done it. As for the topic at hand, I can’t count how many people I would have hit if their backdashes weren’t invincible


#13

…I don’t think I have ever seen someone actually do that.


#14

r u serious? yes this is very possible and done all the time with right spacing and timing.


#15

in this thread people escape fireball with back dashing( lol may be 1 fireball in the corner with a lot of luck… ) consistently and fa cr mp dash forward a throw before hadoken…

not sure we are playing the same game loool

for info forward dash is 20 frame and hado is 14 so do your math and tell me how it s possible… you can t fa cr mk and dash forward and throw before the hado.

you can guard cr mk fadc the fireball dash and grab.


#16

nooo lol you fa the cr.mk then grab threw the fireball maybe your execution is off or something.


#17

this dude said grab before the f

nevermind. appropriate response is LOL


#18

Obvious answer is to play Vega, backflip through fireballs.


#19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3LDuwLxd7I&list=FLfVIvgtimNluildxncX-6Ow
14:33


#20

You can grab through a fireball yes that is a fact. However you cannot grab any shoto doing crMK - Fireball by focus absorbing the crMK and dashing forward unless it wasn’t actually a canceled crMK. Fireball startup would happen before your forward dash recovers. Some players timing will get thrown off by the focus absorb and cause them to miss the cancel to fireball but if they actually canceled their crMK - Fireball you’ll get hit during the forward dash.

Only a couple of characters / fireballs are slow enough for that to work.

Cody - Anything canceled into badstone can be focus absorbed - dash - throw (or just about anything. Focus absorb - dash - ultra for many characters will work.) Badstone is kind of shitty for buffering, mainly just a mid range harassment tool rather than a pressure or zoning tool. It’s more like Dan’s fireball in that regards except Badstone is better for harassment but Dan’s is viable for ending blockstrings.
Oni/Evil Ryu/Akuma - Any of their half circle back fireballs are slow enough that you can absorb the crMK - dash - throw them out of the startup. Regular fireballs are too quick though.
Rose - Her MP/HP fireballs are slow enough you can focus absorb anything and dash forward - throw. LP and EX are too quick.
Gouken - You can do focus absorb - dash forward - throw with some characters but not all characters as his fireball is just on the edge. Slower dashes will get hit but a dash like Abel’s or Chun’s might work.

No one else’s fireballs will work.