Why u no ia tsurugi after a crossdown?

When Makoto wins a air fight early enough, she can cross down. There are a few other reset situations like using clk on a falling opponent after a crumple or using f.lk after a fukiage.

A lot a of people use a karakusa, or st.lp karakusa, after that crossdown. But the opponent is very likely to grab or jump in this situation, and your trap may fail. The IA tsurugi shuts down these both options and also gives an opportunity for massive damage / ultra1.

There must be a reason why it’s not used and that i am not aware of.

It’s a valid option. I think the reason you don’t see it used that much is that you’ve already disoriented the opponent a bit so a back dash is not as likely. After a cross under an opponent is most likely looking for you to go for the hit and usually will either block or go for the reversal.

Weird topic to make a whole new thread for.

Assuming that your opponent is disoriented, why wouldn’t you try to open his guard with something strong ?
Karakusa is good versus someone who will block the good way (the way where you would “normally” hit with a crossdown). But if the opponent jumps you are in a really bad position. Both options are bad versus a shoryuken, but the ia tsurugi will also take people jumping (ia tsu wont hit, but you have the time to fukiage after), people backdashing, people grabbing.
I find the crossdown initiated by an antiair like hp, very variable in timing. I think that’s why a lot of people like to stand lp, or stand mp hc before they use karakusa. Maybe it’s to deny jumping, or just to block/hit confirm the karakusa. But an ia tsu would do the exact same thing, without the flaws of a karakusa.

The timing seems tighter with the karakusa though. But maybe my execution is not good enough. I find it harder ot ia tsu with a vertical jump than a simple karakusa.

I wanted to discuss. There must be something i am missing. But if there is nothing to discuss about, then


I dont use that much karakusa after crossdown.
I think it’s better to use the (fake) crossdown for 50/50 mixup.

If a shoto mashes 1231321321 - p, his shoryuken will always hit you, isn’t it ? Regardless of your position, you will be hit, wether you are on the left side or the right side. (except if you block, but that’s kinda of hard, for me, to setup a situation where you will wait for the opponent to mash, and also … he may use a simple grab)
I have to study more in training mode about the ia tsu after a crossdown to see if you can make the shoryuken wiff, if the tsurugi is a little bit late. A single standing light punch seems to break the ia tsu. Maybe i’m too slow. Maybe, in this very situation, ia tsu is too slow to apply a true okizeme.

I saw a makoto doing the double crossdown in a vryu’s post.
A delayed shoryuken will beat that easily though.

I like it! Is the input for the dash back just dashing in the opposite direction, or is it an autocorrect dash? Are you holding up forward after the dash, or do you wait a bit? Make sure to post this in a sticky so it doesn’t get lost, also you might get more conversation going on there.

I dash in the opposite direction. After the second dash, you have to wait a little bit or you’ll get hit.
6,6, 4, 4, ~wait~ ia tsu
Another anti srk setup, but there is no tsurugi involved.

I use tsurugi after cross under a lot. It serves the purpose of a frame trap with air frames which means grapplers can’t throw you. Sometimes I’ll use a meaty st.mp into mixup as well. Setups aren’t really that good unless you have multiple options out of the same setup IMO. A lot of bad players play mak. Don’t judge what’s viable off of other peoples play. Their brain isn’t any bigger than yours.

You can get pretty sneaky with cross under tsurugi too. If they see you always go for hp > hp hayate after do a tick karakusa setup for more dmg. People get bored when they know they’re in a reasonably long combo and they don’t focus as much when it’s going on.

I don’t use karakusa after a reset unless I’m REALLY in their head. The only thing it beats is block. Not that good imo

Also, that double dash setup is nice but if you’re waiting to tsurugi couldn’t you just fukiage him on the way down for a higher damage combo?

I will try tonight. I’m pretty sure i wont be able to go catch a reversal lp srk.
Btw i dont use IA Tsurugi after a reset because when i dash to the right, my ia tsurugi always wiffs since i cant vertical jump correctly. When i am dashing to the left, it’s ok. I think that a reset to karakusa is able to eat “reversal” stand normals, but the ia tsurugi cant do that, it seems slower to me.

instead of using tsurugi, you can do yamase, or crMP.
It will hit, and faster than tsurugi. And it avoids shoryuken too.

You’re handsome.

The higher the strength of the tsurugi the better the downward hitbox. Karakusa is 7 frames at the least and you’re not doing that with perfect timing so add another 1-2 frames onto it. On the other hand tsurugi is massively active and will meaty for you. It can blow up crouch tech HARD.

Why can’t you do you vertically jump correctly?

I was experimenting and after:

FA3, FA1 juggle, LP Hayate, dash jMK

If they do nothing, then you are at a disadvantage due to jMK whiffing on most characters even on dash. It also seems to be vulnerable to moves with fast startup and big hit boxes that can be mashed out quickly(e.g. - Gief lariat, blanka electricity, LP Fukiage).

However post reset, dash, HK Tsurugi is a cross up on A LOT of characters. The timing is very weird though. You have to do it like the timing for XU MK Tsurugi after back throw. Maybe even a couple frames later. One real problem with this is mak should NEVER do this in the corner as it is simple to block, doesn’t cross up, and is Herp Derp punishable lol.

I also found out that doing dash cLK buffered EX Hayate OS EX Hayate/Ultra 2 works well here for counter hits and to punish backdashing stead of doing Tsurugi since the timing is easier. I was testing the other setup and it loses to a lot of stuff too but DESTROYS a lot of reversals from my testing. On my way home so I’ll play around with it a little more.

It would be nice to find a XU Tsurugi for resets lol.

I dont know if it’s the same thing for other people, but i always feel more confortable to mash a reversal dp when someone jumps on me. If you use cmp or yamase, it does not look unsafe. But it may still confuse opponent mind since you double crossdowned. Also this is something you cant do when you are near of the corner or the double crossdown wont work. I thought by baiting this shoryuken you may gain more space to corner someone.

I dont know, i must have a bad habit. I know that with a forward jump tsurugi, after a single crossdown, it may work if it’s made really fast but i cant get the correct timing.

I may be wrong (usually am) but I think he means in response to the DP. Cross, WAIT (avoid DP), then use cMP or Yamase (to punish for more damage than Tsurugi). It’s a much safer option.

in fact, i never wait.
fukiage -> jump HP (after top of jump) -> dash -> dash -> crMP.

because shoryuken comes out before makoto finishes her 2nd dash, any move you do will avoid it (he’s already in the air when your move comes out). We just had to find something which hits if ryu doesnt do shoryuken.
CrMP is good because it’s fast (opponent has less time to react he has to guard the other side)…but you cannot really confirm hayate (LP is too far to hit, and MP cannot be charged if you want it to combo).

Oh, I tried dash*3 -> fukikusa, and it works too, except against LP shoryuken (fukiage isnt fast enough to catch ryu in the air).