Wolvy\doom trap

wolverine

#1

if we’re talking about shear chip damage, this is probably the best trap chip team in the game. During speed up and your opponent is in the corner, you can layer doom 5-6 times for free. Totaling 50-60%chip for 1 bar.

In speed up mode, s.lp, s.lk, s.mk, dash repeat is an infinite, you can’t guard cancel out of it to my knowledge and you can’t jump out of it. Its s flat out pin you can’t do anything about. The only way out is a fuck up on the count of the wolvy player or an alpha counter by the opponent. Wolvy is VERY tiny, he can slide underneath psylock AA so you could probably create perfect block chains that went underneath AA’s easy.

To get your opponent towards the corner, you can use speed up to cause block stun all the way towards the corner or air combo’s ending in drill claw. Drill claw gets a huge amount of screen.

The chip is so free so the next question is who’s 3rd. You’ll probably need an AA that gets in clean, doesn’t need an AA on point, and can fight top tiers if you wanted xxx\aa\primary assist function team setup. I’d put cyclops on it or cammy but w\e.

While wolvy is in speed up, the more you attack, the slower your time goes down so constantly doing the infinite behind doom over and over was how I was doing this. 2 bars is certain death. Not to mention that as your first one is about to die, layer doom, reactivate is free. So if someone gets pinned into the corner and you have 2 bars, its free.

Wolvy can chain all day so he’ll be able to cover cyclops pretty easily. Even if wolvy dies, cyke\doom is a very good duo. You can get in clean with qcf+kk as doom rocks layer right behind that on the last hit.


#2

chipping mid screen as a strategy won’t work properly. the constant dashing after s.mk, dash back in forces the opponent away from doom. You’ll get some chip but not that much. You may be better off working your opponent in the corner from mid screen speed up. A reminder that speed up wolvie can’t build bar while in speed up. He does get 25% bar every time he activates so every 4th speed up = 1 extra bar.

However, using doom as a block string to build bar is pretty good. Any character who’s chain happy like wolvy can get in some very good block strings in. I’m guessing its possible to get 30% bar per string and a chance to relayer.


#3

Wolvie/Spiral proj. is another wild chip duo. Like doom, but you get to recall 1.5 or 2x faster. Seems to work better midscreen, but doesn’t make as much sense IMO bc, face it, you’d have to make twice as many decisions to relayer easy. Still, I like it for a gung-ho edge of your seat pairing.

But–

You can get decent chip output midscreen with doomski if you can mixup into a spd-up dashing s.HK bc when that hits, s-up momentum carries him into a pin. Its possible to chain into the dash HK from his basic s-up semi-infinite also.

lol at wolvie killing off doom rocks if he gets too speedy.

how about qcb punches for x-up into rock pin? seems like that works fine.

random thought is that wolvie/doom lets you exercise a non-tron wolvie team, so thats a plus-- keepin it fresh. I can see the conventional wisdom in pairing with an AA, but there’s something about a team that is strictly about horizontal control, I guess i just like those extremes though.

I think I’m gonna run wolvie/monkeys/doom just to push that concept. Son Monkeys are nice to have midscreen bc you get launch, double monkey assist, string into corner and im thinkin DOOMADOOMA

im kinda glad low tier plays like s/d now

speed up assist more than necessary


#4

seems as good a place as any to post up some discussion on SPD-UP mobility tricks…

Short Dash or vampire wave dash

Shortening the dash with down cancel or LK vs style seems very useful so far bc i started getting WHOMPED by timed normals sometimes and runnin into psychic assist calls from fullscreen. LP could just as easily be used but i picked LK since I claw it out jap style. And as essential as maintaining proximity is, I’m finding success with waiting it out once i’ve trained them to look for those tiny openings (like a trap team can do) and baiting the response.

Dash LK back and forth is pretty funny lookin, kinda like IFC storm lp’s on speed. Done fast enough you can tag them on the way in and tag them on the way out as well. Good luck w/ hit confirming those though :] .

When you have them cornered dash back LK should hop you up and over sweeps and low hits as well. Don’t know how reliable, but i’ve utilized it once vs. commando sweep, dash back in combo death.

Jap Infinite

as seen here: [media=youtube]RS7jMf39sFA[/media]

its just [ standing LP, cr. LP, walk forward ] xN

you can end it anytime with an air chain into assist (Bubble here, but Tron is a big splash into rings. They can block the last one or two depending on how they land, but you remain in the plus)

you can also call a bubble and HK -> air combo into bubble

you can reset with a rep of s.LP, cr.LP, db. HP to switch sides. this lets you toss another assist out and re-up

quick enough to get a couple reps on assist then HK launcher and make your escape

nice basic spd-up attempt bc even on block its causing that stun

I’m thinking this is the tougher infinite, but more practical in terms of reset and more importantly that it uses less jabs per rep yielding that longer hit counter before dizzy


#5

nice find Shoultzula.

How about Sent/Wolv/Doom? Or Wolv/Strider/Doom (although that’s 2 meter burners on the same team)?


#6

not sent or strider. Gotta have that AA for that team chemistry and its my belief that sent\doom as a duo isn’t all that great.


#7

can opponent do pushblock and then as you dash back in they call assist?

Also, if they push block and you can run back up, but your meter runs out faster if they do that?

I’m still giving this a try, although I can see how wolv speedup is easy to mess up.


#8

first q, no. First post I talked about that.

second q, yes but only slightly. Wolvy is just too DAMN fast in that mode that he’ll be on the point in no time causing his meter to go down slower.

One of the main reasons he’s easy to fuck up with is because of speed up being incredibly hard to control. By the time you realize it, he went fullscreen faster than your eyes could keep up.


#9

do you double tap forward for spd-up strings or use the PP dash?

i find myself doing both pretty randomly but i feel like mastering the use of PP is gonna help work out the recovery speed on his normals and get the tightest possible. Then again you can just tap forward during the tail end of the normal and finish the dash when it ends :\

i guess i usually PP from 3/4 to full-screen and f,f from there at the closer ranges.

sometimes though i mess up the dash with f,f and just standing whiff LP,MP leaving me open, which is worse than the standard botched PP dash which is just s.FP

answered my own question but still curious how ur executing loganlockdown.

i’m also thinkin about what wolvie can do to bait out assists, for example, lockdown stringage xx step off with dash away LK xx qcfPP xx killer DHC. Would work with the Wolvie/Thanos number ive got going, but plenty of options. LOL at dhc to Charlie booms tag wolvie back in. The dash away bait could also work to lure out empty pushblocks, haven’t fully investigated that yet.

Spd Up wolvie is definitely a far out team, nothing comes to mind as far as a team that’s this balls out-- it’s like s/d but instead of orbs its his body out there gettin that stun. Definitely fun, defnitely execution heavy.

EDIT:

after mashing around a little more, i like PP dash way better. Once i got over the timing and stopped getting FP’s bc of early dash attempts, strings started to flow better.

i have been getting beat by both Capcom assist and Dragon Punch supers, though. The corridor assist i chalk up to bad timing/execution but i’m wondering if wolvie gets hit by quick invincible supers?


#10

Empty pushblocks used to ruin me vs s/d and msp…

ecz, you’re wondering if Wolvy gets hit out of what by quick, invincible supers? His spd-up activation?


#11

i’m wondering if he can get hit out of his block string ‘infinite’.

or perfect block strings, like Spd-Up dashing pkp or pkk or kkk xN

i think that’s its all plus frame if you do it right and that he shouldn’t be getting hit unless i fuck it up, but i’m just curious what ppl are running into (literally ha) with spd-up wolvie when they leave tiny breaks btwn the strings

LTFOL at your sig btw. i haven’t exactly fig’d that out yet 100%


#12

I use fwd, fwd to dash. Its actually the fastest way because some normals can be late cancelled into s.fp\s.rh.

Just practice the s.lp, s.mp, s.mk infinite over and over on hit till its muscle memory. Thats the timing you’ll need for the block strings.


#13

Best way to find out would be to try in-match, I suppose. It’s obvious your opponent would be mashing an appropriate assist to counter your reps if there are any holes. This could be your bait tool though, as you mentioned before. The question would then be, how do you evade the counter assist and then how do you get back in to double snap or punish the assist w/o falling victim to the point. Quite frankly, I wouldn’t be trying to bait an assist call at that proximity until the point is rather low on health and will die by at least the resulting chip dmg you intend to dish out. Then again, you likely intend to have Wolvy followed by Thanos, so, as you mentioned, you could also burn 2 lvls to dish nasty damage on that assist (given they don’t land behind you like cammy,ken,akuma, etc.).

Who do you plan on using in conjunction w/ Wolvy to counter a pushblock? Or is he just that fast where he returns to the point before they even recover from stun? If he is just short, that is all they need to get away. I believe you said Doom-B? Try setting the training dummy on all-guard, put them in blockstun with Doom-B or whoever long enough for you to activate spd-up, pause, change their movement from standing to jumping, and then follow through with your Wolvy spd-up blockstring. You could start Cable and then move on to characters with shorter guard stiffness.

Just a thought, it would suck to be up against Cable w/ your spd-up Wolvy/Doom-B, suffer a pushblock just before you call Doom which causes you and Doom to both be opposite screen, then fall victim to AHVB…you have quite a project on your hands as far as timing your stuff. But it shouldn’t be too hard. You would just have to play responsive, rather than auto-pilot granted the threat of your opponent, I suppose (e.g., vs MSP, your scariest punish that I can think of is falling victim to a pushblock and DHC to Hail…as far as opening in your blockstring, double snap off of Psy-aa into Doom kill).

edit:

According to Shoultzula, however, what I mentioned above really shouldn’t be an issue. Just don’t mess up on your execution as far as timing of normals, dash ups, planting of Doom, and spd-up activation all in tandem. I just wonder, would Wolvy/Doom players want to treat it as s/d and have someone solid build the meter for Wolvy or rather have Wolvy duke it out and do his own thing?

You would be flexible enough to run:

doom/wolvy/aa
solid/wolvy/doom
wolvy/aa/doom…where you could counter in your aa and still be comfortable with your team function


#14

yea, wolvy doom can be looked as a s\d type of team. You’re getting 5-6 doom reps a bar? thats retarded. For strider to get that many reps, he’ll have to activate @ least 3 times so you can see where the bar trade off is a bit better.

Use the infinite string as your bait. Dash in and run a rep or 2 and when they start calling their helper or trying to GC, use options. Bait out helpers with dash back dash fwd, counter call and stuff GC attempts with multiple block strings.

If you know anything about how gc’s work, you can create holes in a GC string to allow someone to be let out eariler or later in the GC window. You can use that as a tool to mix someone up.

wolvy ron is really nasty because the counter call is going to be 40%. Mixups will be half like KD, wake up, free 50\50 mixup. There’s a lot more potential to it. Using doom is just a really funny way of getting free life w\o mixups but tron allows for practicality.


#15

i got the PP dash infinite down at this point, but i still found a use for f,f. For whatever reason, you can’t do spd-up Jap Infinite PP Dash underneath. You have to us F,F for some reason. I’ll double check next time i play but it seems like you can dash faster bc of that late cancel you mention.

I used to do f,f 100% but when i started messing around with circle and octagonal gates on my stick the throw increased to where it isn’t feasible anymore. I figure i’ll just practice BOTH ways and be done with it.

HAHA and shoult, this team IS retarded. It’s all the execution of S/D but Wolvie’s puttin that body on the line. Fuckin Gung-Ho style.


#16

The chip is too retarded to ignore.

The only reason I don’t like PP is because a mistake results in a normal coming out. If you mess up the fwd, fwd and only one of them gets recognized, its just a fwd step. I use it to minimize my risk reward.

For a 3rd, wolvie would really like to have bar coming in but he doesn’t need it. Since he’s chain happy with good + on normals, he can do safe pressure strings over and over till he gets a bar.

The hardest part with this team is forcing the corner pressure. Thats going to be the root of the team so I’d pick a helper that could make that a little easier. If cable AA hit the point character from mid screen, wolvie could dash all the way to the corner and have the opponent fall from the corner.


#17

hahA wolvie/monkeys is dumb also. Double up monkeys across the screen free on hit or block? True low tier style.

also, for some reason i can’t link a spd-up dashing combo into a dashing HK anymore, maybe it was a fluke/was seeing things. Seems like a crazy mixup if ur a god with the way you slide on through. Easy to do with Tron or when assists in general are in the equation but it’d be nice solo if i could get it again.\

another UG solo reset:

launcher, pk … p … p … HK so that HK hits crossup midair

they land to your back but pop to your front, relaunch

from here you can do: pk … p … HK to cross up again

lol Pseudo infinite style

i haven’t really figured out solid options besides the relaunch but messing with dashes could yield positive results

edit:

i love my control rig lately but this throw range is getting annoying fast. Its just BARELY too much for optimum manual dashing. Mad geighh

also, solo wolvie at endgame with a rainbow is HEAAVVVVYY


#18

So shoultz,

How about chun for that AAA spot? Not quite as solid as cyke or near as invincible as either, but consider these things:

1: chun has j.lk + tornado claw assist, stomp, AD, lk, RH, s.lp overhead setups

2: chun can (call doom) throw midscreen! Check out these possibilities…

3: counter chunXXqcf+PP or XXdp+KK works and can be DHC’d out of with this team setup

4: Retarted safe 1-frame RH bar coming in all day (and you blocked that random hailstorm)

One thing about cyke I think this team would really like is the added blockstun. But assuming you get them on the wall, Chun and Ken would both serve that purpose fairly well. Just a thought.

I like where this is headed man, keep us posted! :woot: