Would a divekick character be too strong in this game engine?


#1

Imagine like a Yun/Yang/Rufus or whoever else

Would that be too strong in this game given that there is no universal defensive system like focus or parry to help mitigate it?

Seems to me like they would need to make the minimum jump height pretty high and give it poor advantage to make it work


#2

Standing jab is the universal defense system.


#3

It has less to do with the mechanics of the game and more the mechanics of the move:

If it’s hit to hurtbox ratio is small hurtbox and big hit box combined with a divekick that is plus on block even on head height blocks… That would be a broken divekick.

If however the divekick is more like Cammys regular divekick in this game… With a smaller hitbox and huge hurtbox and is decently negative on block… Then that divekick can be balanced.

Look… The thing about ANY move is that there can be ver powered versions of it… Or underpowered versions of it.

If you have divekicks like in 3s… Very powerful divekicks… You would need powerful defensive options to go with them… Like parry.

Divekicks can be bealanced in this game, but that the thing…, they would have to be balanced for the game.

Squigly has a divekick in skullgirls and it’s not even used that much… As an example.


#4

General trend in fighting games lately is dive kicks don’t promote fundamentals and disrespect normals too much so they’re making them weaker as a result. KI has pretty much all risky or long start up dive kicks as well. When Combofiend said this was an honest game dive kicks were one of the things they were referring to. Don’t expect any 3S/SFIV style dives in this game.


#5

The biggest balancing factors of a dive kick are its hit/hurt boxes and hit/block stun. If there are multiple versions that drastically change the angle (Yun/Yang, Rufus), you have to make them a bit worse than something like Necalli/Akuma’s dive kicks because they are harder to predict and counter.

If you’re talking about matchups, I think many characters should be able to handle dive kick pressure in this game. V-Reversals are a hard counter to pressure strings, and anti-airs across the board have better hitboxes. A dive kick would have to be really damn good to get around something like Birdie or Mika’s cr.MP.


#6

Sim is a divekick character…


#7

You must be forgetting Cammys ex and v trigger divekicks… For shame DJ, for shame.


#8

I really liked Yang in SF4. Had a divekick but it was on the slow side so he couldn’t abuse it like Yun. Plus he had weak overall damage and mediocre pokes. Really had to work hard for his wins. He’s the only character that would fit in well in SFV, but the point is moot as he would be like a season 10 addition.


#9

Chun her iall is basically a divekick…


#10

No, the range, angle and damage of a divekick also drastically effect the usefulness of a divekick.

As an example… If divekicks only had the range of an sf5 throw… They wouldn’t be super powerful… Strong if everything else about them is strong, but not borked.

In fact, that’s actually a great way to add in a REALLY good divekick character:

Make them slow like gief, give them no command grab, and make their divekick really short ranged. Make it very low height restriction though and also make it have great damage on hit and good frame on block and very high priority.

It would be like playing against a command grab character.

Anything is possible if balanced right. As an example, there was never a character with a universal non metered fireball that also had a command grab (that functioned like a command grab)… Till Laura.

But shes here only with weaker versions of fireballs and command grabs to balance the combo out.

Other characters like tager and bella have this, but with huge restrictions.


#11

Cammy’s EX dive still has a pretty big hurt box, it just looks like a SFIV dive. Most 3S/SFIV dives are still better than that.

Chun’s air legs is anti airable on reaction because of the slow start up and how big her hurt box is. There’s no OG dives in this game.

Even Alex’s stomp is honest now.


#12

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/e/e5/Seth.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120823222745

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/9/91/Oro-stance.gif/revision/latest?cb=20080211012304


#13

I rather capcom gave me a glass cannon, i would be fine with 850 health yun. And i rather have a 3 angled divekicks with a height restriction and they can even be slightly slower than his usfiv divekicks. Divekick can also combo into just lights(into his TC when he lands them closer, unless counterhit confirm into a medium). On block they would be +1 at best when spaced correctly, the absolute chins.

Combofiend said he wants an honest game…we have mika and to a smaller degree sim. They both have some pretty distusting stuff…and im okay with it. If anything sfv is too bland.


#14

I’d say overall Mika and Sim are honest in their overall scope. They have disrespectful things, but none of them can disrespect the neutral like Fuerte, Seth, Viper or others could in IV. Mika’s ways of getting in are all pretty telegraphed and she loses neutral to a lot of characters. Sim has a lot more neutral avoidance now, but he still has nowhere near the amount of defensive options that other characters like him had in IV. He’s pretty honest in comparison to what was in IV.


#15

Got me on Seth and probably a few other characters that are nerfed in extreme ways…
I thought pros was blockable? Idk, don’t play 3S.

Seth has the games worst health to have a command grab a port and a fireball. But yeah, it isn’t a combo that has been seen much at all, if at all on a “true” grappler… Then again I doubt there is such a thing as a true grappler with a command grab.


#16

Adding onto the list, Seth also got a dive kick and Shoryuken. He’s pretty much amazing by design lol. The fact he’s even remotely balanced in SF4 is surprising because he has so many damn options, many of which are pretty good. Not that I want him back anytime soon, if ever.

To be real, the dive kick characters in 4 were only broken when they got things that worked really well because of the dive kick. Vanilla Rufus had insane damage for little risk iirc, and Yun can start his entire pressure game from a well-spaced dive kick. This is part of what made Yang so much more balanced, since his strong tools weren’t augmented by having a dive kick. Getting one of the twins in SFV could be interesting since Genei Jin/Seiei Enbu would be V-Triggers, which reduces the opportunity cost of using their EX moves.


#17

Sry to nitpick but il do it anyway Muhahaha. Oro’s “grab” has a power bomb motion but its blockable so its not a grab at all much less a command grab Bakayarou.
Edit: The bakayarou part is for just5moreminutes how dare he make such mistakes.


#18

Seth is kind of an anomaly though, Akuma technically has a command grab super as well but not usually thought of as much in that light


#19

Really? It’s been a long time since I’ve really looked at 3S, particularly Oro. I thought it was a real grab b/c of the input.
Whatever, Seth still came first, so the point stands.


#20

Unless you are fucking bison lol. This is not stopping many dive kicks.

http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_3/B59-5LP-4