Would you want to have Original Zangief back?(Super/Vanilla)

zangief

#1

Well, do you?


#2

Just give me ex.gh with kd again and I’d be happy.


#3

I would like Vanilla Gief back. EXGH knockdowns and bitchin’ c.lk.

But everyone else would hate us.


#4

we already hate you all anyway


#5

No, new zangief is super cool. The spd range makes gief a footsies monster which is way more consistent than the 50/50 guess vortex style we used to go for off green hand KD.


#6

If you don’t miss knockdowns, which assist in every single bad matchup Gief has, I don’t know what to tell you.


#7

AE gief + exgh + 3 frame c.lk = mecha gief.
we can keep dreaming.


#8

You know I always here the footsie thing but rarely see it used by the high level Giefs.

Sent from Hueco Mundo using Garganta Talk.


#9

Zangief IS footsies… Hes always been footsies. At high level, you ALAWYS had to play GOOD footsies to be a GOOD Zangief. The only difference between AE and SUPER is that you can easier punish weird stuff midscreen with L.SPD and some moves. Totally not worth having a good mixup as a reward for footsies or reactions.

Can everyone look here: http://no.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/322952612 at 1hour 27min some seconds. XSK Samurai vs. PxG Snake Eyez. It looks more or less impossible for Gief to win this match now. He needs to get through fireballs on jump reads to deal any real dmg. and the mixup isnt in Zangief favor. With Knockdown, id say this mu could be 5-5. Because you would be able to do dangerous and nasty things when he did a bad fireball. Now, you cant really get consistent good dmg from outplaying him on the ground.
150dmg or W/E for a bad fireball. Who cares? you lose some ground, but thats it. Anti airs for 100-160 starts hurting when you rarely land a jumpin on a smart Ryu.

Zangief without Knockdown is a really REALLY NErfed character. He is just raped as a char. Definitively way down on the tierlists. And for no good reason. He wasnt toptier in Super… Now the match vs. Sagat is even harder(and vs. even Sagats that I can beat with my Honda, I feel is really hard with my gief). Ryu has become pretty tough. Dhalsim has become so much worse. E. Honda has become terrible. Guile has become Worse. Fuerte has become worse. Juri is proabably super hard, but noone plays her.


#10

I was responding to the guy who said footsies are more dangerous with increased SPD range and no KD my fault for not quoting the guy I did reply late at night :(… I know you need footsies regardless I remember the Vangief/Wong match thing was a beauty to watch. I was just saying that since they first announced the changes people kept bringing it up as a big footsie advantage the increased range and like I mentioned I rarely see the increased range come into play if anything I’ve seen it as a disadvantage since some players have figured out the range like the Itabashi/Mago match.

Sent from Hueco Mundo using Garganta Talk.


#11

ahh like that, SORRY MAN :slight_smile: Didnt mean to be so offencive really…

Yeah I def agree. That it rarely makes that big a difference in footsies. I mean the Range was EPIC from before, and the increase isnt THAT much. I mean I think it went from 1.65 to 1.75. Its always been great(the range) Though its better now. Its not worth Mixxing people up. Same WITH U2, its such a guess ultra to use. people can cancle jumps into specials aswell after the flash…


#12

Yeah defeats the purpose with moves having more invincibility and all that I hate EX DP.

Sent from Hueco Mundo using Garganta Talk.


#13

I agree 100% with you Veggey. They totally raped Gief when they took away the ex.gh kd and there was absolutely no reason to take it away, still boggles my mind. They tried to justify it by saying Gief would have some sort of vortex after the new ex hand lol, simpy ridiculous. I remember here that some people actually believed that bullshit. You have to work so hard now to beat so many characters and when you finally work your way in the reward is minimal at best. Why the hell did they do this?


#14

I respectfully disagree with a lot things I’ve read in here :slight_smile:

I don’t use footsies, I find them too boring. I don’t feel you HAVE to play footsies in order to win with Zangief. It’s a common misconception.

U2 is not really a guess ultra if you know your opponent is gonna jump :slight_smile: It’s all about opponent pattern recognition, opponent playstyle, and opponent skill level to make an educated guess that calculates way over a 50% chance of landing it.

As far as the exgh knockdown…yes it was definitely a nerf that zangief really didn’t need, so I guess we were forced to try to maximize the potential of the new exgh, which is kinda meh. It still has good mixups, but the knockdown was definitely better for the character.

The jab spd range is GDLK, especially with kara. Only thing I would like to see go back was the cr.lk


#15

That heavily depends on the opponents you are facing… Very strong players cant be taken down without having Zangief footsies in. Because they know how to punish and react to all Gief gimmicks. Like s.rh from Zangief is very punishable on whiff(and should be used to track down backdashes / backjumps, and the rare suprise mixup). They know when to use different normal aas so we cant empty jump from afar etc. the SPD range is great. But not worth losing KD over.

Also, the U2. Only creates a situation where gief is more random, and a more random outcome. All characters can cancle the begging of their jump before they leave the ground. So they can just mash a special that isnt airborn during U2 animation if they did try to jump out and you read it. Unless you delayed it so that they where far in the air. But that also means you left yourself vurnerable while buffering on the ground.


#16

I’m a little surprised that no one is mentioning Gief’s lariat from vanilla. It used to hit crouching opponents! Also, massive chip damage and pretty safe on close range block.


#17

Are you referring to walking forward using half circle motions?


#18

Call it yomi, call it reading, call it risk, call it whatever you want and type as beautiful as you want, it wont change the fact that u2 is RANDOM and a GUESS.

I lol´d


#19

I kinda feel like if Zangief doesn’t get knockdowns more easily again, he at least needs to do more damage with his BnB combos. Seriously…they do less damage than just about any other character and then don’t even end with a knockdown…your opponent gets tickled and unless you guess a SB they will almost certainly get a free jump away completely ending whatever pressure you had (unless of course you had them in the corner). Zangief currently only has one real way of doing damage and that is a fierce spd. Also, it might be a moot point but with the difficult conditions of landing a SB and how very punished you will be if you miss, I kinda feel like it should AT LEAST do the same damage as U1, if not more. Lets face it, it is one of the hardest to land ultras in the game given to possibly the least mobile character and it roughly feels like doing nothing more than just landing a fierce spd. Most opponents don’t really seem to fear it and will continue to anti-air because either you get hit before pulling it off, or they’re just comfortable with eating the damage from this essentially once-a-round move because then they’ll no longer have to worry about it.

Let’s not forget that in addition to his awesome cr.lk and lariat that hit crouching, Zangief also had a heatbutt that flat out beat damn near everything (without trading), a deceptive short jump to bait out anti-airs, ultra 1 did 510 damage (at full meter) and he also had 1200 life.

None of this really matters though – does anyone really think capcom is going to do another update? They already shot down any hopes for an update to MvC3 despite being the most popular game on stream and seem hopelessly devoted to trying to salvage whatever they can with SFxT.

Anyway that’s just my two cents.


#20

The more I play really good players the more I think Gief sux sadly. It just feels like we have to work so hard to win sometimes whereas the other character/player doesn’t have to work nearly as hard yet when we can land a combo the reward is minimal at best and then it’s back to square one again. Landing ex.gh now just seems like a waste in most situations.