X-23 Matchups Average

x-23

#1

The one thing I noticed we didn’t really have yet for this thread is a thread that specifically discusses X23’s abilities to fight each character. It gets a bit convoluted since fighting each character is dependent on what assists they use and what assists X23’s is using and other convoluted factors. What I wanna do for now is just make a general thread to discuss her matchups and eventually post up the advantage/disadvantage ratio for each matchup and what X23 is capable or not capable of in each matchup.

For now I’m just going to list how I feel she averages out against for each character that I’ve regularly fought against with her until I can gather more info.

Akuma:

Ammy:

Arthur:

C.Viper:

Captain America: 4.5 X-23/5.5 Captain. I think it’s a close enough match when both characters end up in close range it’s just at the mid to far range Captain has a very specific advantage. Captain America loves characters that don’t have projectiles because the one big issue of his shield slash is that it only has one point of projectiles durability. They’ve made the speed on his slashes even faster and if your character doesn’t have a projectiles this basically acts as a retractable full screen poke that can allow Captain full combos that will easily one shot X-23. You really have to set and grind in the mid range. Once you get in it’s generally easier although you still have to be wary about the fact that he has the longest ranged, fastest crouching low in the game and he has at least 2 special moves and 2 supers that more or less act as reversals against your offense. He has a bigger hit box though so it’s easy enough to mix him up once you get in.

Chris Redfield:

Chun Li:

Dante: 4.5/5.5 ish or 6/4 Dante’s favor depending on assists.

Deadpool:

Dorm:

Doom:

Felicia: Even. This is pretty much just whoever gets in wins. Felicia’s s.L is rather annoying and can make it tough to even dive properly on her. Though once you get in you can easily play the footsie game with her and tag a hit on her and she doesn’t really have the highest health threshold so you can get her out of there easy enough if you tag her. The one thing to be wary about though is that although she is a ground rusher like X-23 she has a very strong anti aerial game with her absurd air throw range. You have to be very careful about how you use talon attacks to approach her in this match up. They have to be covered by assists to make sure you don’t get air thrown for free. Dark Felicia is a big problem and pretty much wins for free if she gets in but luckily talon attacks and wall jumps plus assists give you some decent options to burn it out. Crescent Scythe to talon attack allows you to put nice high priority hit boxes on the screen to lame her out for a bit also.

Haggar: 6/4 X23’s favor. I don’t see what much has changed here. If you block…you’ll be alright. If you don’t you’ll probably lose. Use your super fast wave dash to dash under and anti air his pipe game. Push block any obvious pipes that you can’t anti air and stay out of the corner. The corner is the one place where Haggar can rape you so definitely have a wall jump or H talon attack ready if you see yourself getting near the corner.

Hsien Ko:

Hulk: 4/6 Hulk’s favor. I felt this matchup was always bad for X-23 and it’s not looking much better in Ultimate. Yeah if you get within point blank range you can give him trouble but he has mad long disjointed hit boxes that X-23 can’t stand and has a completely better mix up game than Sentinel. Making it so you can’t stick to a advance guard and block down patience game to wait for the right spot to kill him. By the time you wait for the right spot he might have killed you. You just have to play really patient and have a strong assist that will allow you to stay to the air and attack with your assist for a bit until you can get in. He has a big health threshold too so that means for sure you will have to reset him if you hit him unless you have a good reason to burn your XF to kill him off early.

He now has armor points on the first part of his charges now which gives you even less ability to hit him. If you can get in point blank range s.M and c.L multi hit normals should allow you to tear him down if combined with instant overheads. It’s just if you press a button at a bad range you lose X-23. His dash also allows for M mirage feint+assist style left/right mix ups on shorter characters if they’re crouching also so blocking on the ground will just get you in more trouble a lot of the time.

Iron Man:

Jill Valentine: 5/5

MODOK:

Magneto: 5/5 depending on assists. Haven’t really run into a lot of Magneto’s yet but unless he has a really strong assist backing I don’t see why this is much worse than it was in Vanilla. s.H MFC still shuts down his air dash game pretty nicely and once you get in there’s nothing to be afraid of because your normals are completely better than his. He has a nice small crouch box as well which is perfect for those ambiguous talon dive uncross ups to get him out of there fast. The range game will be a bit more of a grind with the gravity stuff but wave dashes can nullify the gravity and still get you in. You can also call an assist first to help you since he can’t block during the gravity push/pull.

Morrigan: 4 for X-23/6 for Morrigan. This is most likely one of X-23’s secret bad matchups. She’s a character that people are still learning to use effectively but from what I’ve played so far…it’s another one of those matchups where you’re going to need an anti air assist just to maybe get through and hit her. There’s just not a whole lot you can do about a Morrigan shooting down fireballs then air dashing down with H or S which turn her into hit boxes that can’t be anti aired or air thrown.

X-23 having minimal to no options for dealing with heavy projectile spam that can convert into offense from the top corner of the screen…this is one of those matchups where you just have to land the lucky hit. Magneto can’t really transition into offense from defense as easily as Morrigan and his hit boxes from the air or ground are nowhere near as cheap and he’s much easier to air throw or stand normal punish. Plus Morrigan has rather solid health for her options and 950k which means you’ll most likely have to reset her to kill her or throw down the most TOD worthy 2 + meter combo you got and get her out of there. If you have X-23 2nd or 3rd and Morrigan was the 2nd or 3rd character…just burn the XF and get her out of there.

Phoenix: 4/6 in Phoenix favor. Atrociously in her favor if she turns into Dark Phoenix unless you silent kill gimmick her.

Ryu:

Sentinel: 5/5…maybe even leaning towards 5.5 or 6/4 in X23’s favor because once she gets in he really can’t do shit and his mix up is terrible. His mix up in general is reliant on stuff like being airborne that’s easily blown up by jump normals or air throwing. If he has a decent protective assist like Haggar or Tron to keep her at bay that helps but if she gets in there’s not a whole lot he can do especially if she has XF stocked to XF guard cancel punish his armor moves on block. X23’s fast speed on her normals can easily stuff the start up of the armor moves also. H mirage feint also sets up multiple instant overheads and high low games on his huge crouch box.

She Hulk: 5/5 maybe 5.5/4.5 in She Hulk’s favor depending on assits.

Shuma:

Spencer:

Spider Man:

Storm:

Super Skrull:

Task: 5/5. Can pretty much killer her in one combo even with little meter if the Task has execution but X23 can just run a mix up train on him and DHC glitch kill him or generally just mix him up till he’s dead with relative ease IMO due to his limited movement and he’s not that hard to block without an assist.

Thor:

Trish: 4/6 in favor of Trish. She does a good job laming out Wolverine even so obviously she’s going to do a decent job laming X23 also. Her cancellable dive kick is really annoying because you can’t get a guaranteed XF kill from abuse of it like against Wolverine. Being able to lame out at the top of the screen and then come down with cancellable dive kicks that can’t be air throw or stand normal anti aired is a big deal. Definitely another match where an anti air assist is pretty much a requirement.

Tron:

V.Joe

Wesker: 4.5/5.5 Wesker’s favor. Only reason is because he has way too much health for his own good but DHC glitch kinda evens that out. She has a lot of random tools to get around his normals and her wave dash and crouch is perfect for dealing with his ground gun shots. A bit more annoying when he’s always calling assists to cover his gun and teleports but you can always try to dash in and regular throw him to calm things down or throw out rage trigger and start a DHC combo or turn on XF and kill him.

Wolvie: Vanillla = 4/6 Wolvie’s favor for now. It’s basically just a rushdown vs. rushdown matchup and nobody really outrushes Wolvie unless they have a sword. If you can get in your hit boxes especially with L talon attack and instant talon dive can be annoying for him but his invincible berserker slash plus assist and dive kicks/drill claws are big problems for X23 since she doesn’t have a lot of cheap hit boxes to contend. They’re all extremely fast moves with retarded huge hit boxes and that’s one of the main things X23 has trouble with. Hit boxes that are faster and or cheaper than hers.

Ultimate = 5/5. Berserker slash nerf helps A LOT. No more wondering when Wolverine is going to pull out the partly invincible special move of death. Dive kick hit box got toned down also and apparently his j.L got toned also. He still does a truckload of damage if he hits you but XF1 being nerfed means it’s less likely you’ll see Wolvie pop XF just to kill you in one shot and then threaten the entire life bar of your 2nd character. c.L nerf is probably the biggest nerf since now you don’t have to worry about mashing a normals that goes under most of your standing normals, is rapid fire and outranges your c.L all day. Swiss cheese is annoying and can trade/stuff talon dives/attacks sometimes but hardly anything close to what he had in Vanilla for scare factor.

Zero: 4/6 Zero’s favor. At first I thought this match was really bad but then I started to realize how X23’s L talon attack basically turns her into a projectile and will stuff all of his sword normals even pretty effectively. Unfortunately that, his low health and the ability to possibly frame trap him down if she forces him to block are about her only real advantages. If she’s L talon attacking or calling assists and playing lame he generally has the advantage IMO.


#2

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#3

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#4

Copy-pasta Dante vs X-23(was describing this from the Dante side on another forum) This was also quite early as well:

"Can’t tell who has the advantage in this match-up really, it depends on how X-23 is set-up in terms of assists. But let’s assume the two are solo for the moment.

I think it’s best for Dante to stay at mid-range-far away and keep her out with his normals plus Reverb Shock and his other zoning specials like Air Play, ect until he’s in a position to rush her down. Dante’s normals are better than hers at that range, not much normals can compete with Dante’s at mid to far range anyway. That’s not to say X-23’s normals are bad. X-23 can feint cancel her normals C.Viper style using Mirage Feint+S and doing this gives her massive advantage on block. Otherwise, her main approaches are to cover herself with an assist and use Neck Slicer(charging slice), Mirage Feint M or wavedashes. You can space yourself to make Neck Slicer whiff and punish her even if she charges it up for more distance but it’s awkward. If you spot her doing it blatantly, I’d say just hyper her and her assist if she called one(she may be able to counter this, not sure…)

The problem is when she gets in. X-23’s normals are better up close than Dante’s since his are pretty slow and hers are a lot faster. Feinting her normals up close will pretty much ensure that Dante will get counter-hit if he tries to push buttons. Maybe Dante can reversal with something like Twister or Reverb Shock(surprisingly decent reversal apparently), not too sure…

She can blow up advancing guard pretty well by doing this, plus using wavedashing and Mirage Feint L to get her herself back in should you push her away with an advancing guard. Finally, she can use Talon Dive(diving attack) and Talon Attack(dive kick) to go over low normals. So if you try to advancing guard, she can do one of those moves, the pause creates a failed advancing guard, which turns into a cr.H and those two attacks will go over the cr.H and hit it. Not sure if Dante’s cr.H will her out now, probably not. X-23 can combine this with an assist(usually a beam or some sort of covering assist) to back her up when doing this as well as create left and right 50-50s with Mirage Feint M, which makes her go behind you and go for regular and command throw set-ups. You can prevent Mirage Feint M going behind you if you advancing guard just as she’s doing the move. But ideally, you don’t want X-23 up in your face unless you’re the one who’s pressuring.

Generally, if the X-23 player is finding it difficult to attack you on the ground, she may resort to the air and use Talon Attack and Talon Dive. You probably could anti-air her with something like The Hammer or even Twister when she does those attacks. Another way to deal with them is to just backdash and let them whiff for a punish attempt.

If you land one good combo on her, she’s gone since she’s got such low life. One good DHC combo is enough. If you’ve got Acid Rain loops down, you can end her without needing to DHC, but only near the corner really. However, thanks to the DHC glitch, if X-23 touches you, you could end up dead. X-23 can hit-confirm a feinted st.H poke into a loop into the DHC glitch and down Dante goes. Since her st.H has good range and is decent for AAing, be careful about just airdash j.Hing at her randomly if the X-23 player is throwing that out.

X-23’s Weapon X Hyper blows through projectiles and a lot of other stuff as well but she has to commit to that unless she’s got meter to DHC or XFC cancels it for safety. As for her Level 3, I don’t know if there’s an escape for it if Dante is coming onto the screen via a snapback or replacing a dead character, especially if she uses an assist to lock you down in the air. Very few characters can counter that. Mash buttons and hope for the best lol. Maybe Vortex can get you out since it has a lot of invincibility.~Ryuga"


#5

x-23 does alright against wolvie. I’m sure a lot of x-23s like fighting wolvie because she excels against characters that have to rush down. Her dive kick actually beats wolvies or trades. The hit box isnt so great horizontally, which is why ours win. Since x-23s do a lot of talons in the air he has a hard time to set up any beserker slash mix-ups. The only thing you have to watch out for is doing m talons cause wolvie can dive kick those. We also have better normals and faster mix-ups than him. The only thing he has is beserker charge and beserker slash invincibility in the match-up.


#6

X-23 vs Phoenix(mostly gonna be reiterating stuff from the X-23 vs Phoenix MU thread.)

One method is prevention and eliminate Phoenix before she comes out. Eliminate the first character with a Level 1 XF combo and build 2 bars on top of your default starting meter to gain a total of 3 bars. Then hit the next character with a good combo(will give you a total of 4 bars), and either kill or snapback during the combo and get your lockdown assist(preferably something like Dante’s Jam Session) ready so you can Silent Kill Phoenix. Done deal. However, if you fail, you lose the advantage of having X-Factor to back you up against Dark Phoenix Level 3.

If you don’t want to blow your X-Factor, IMO, after a snapback, have a good assist to back up your mix-ups/offence on her entry. Failing that, make sure you can at least contain her and limit her movement options. Dante’s currently X-23’s BFF, and Jam Session comes in handy since Jam Session is a long vertical assist that can be used to punish Phoenix’s aerial TK shots and help keep her grounded and locked in place everytime she takes to the air. Without an assist to keep her grounded, your options are wavedash and try to punish air TK shots with an airthrow or use Talon Attack H to try and get at her.

I have no clue what X-23 can do about TK traps, sorry. :frowning:

Phoenix coming out with 5 bars is the situation you don’t wanna be in for sure, especially if you’re behind in terms of life/characters. If Dark Phoenix comes out and pops X-Factor, well, you’d better have X-Factor to avoid gettting chipped to death. Stay in the corner to cut down Phoenix’s mix-ups, super jump and air/chicken block(you don’t have to worry about teleport mix-ups since she can’t teleport behind you in the corner, eliminating cross-ups and staying in the air means you don’t have to worry about high/low mix-ups.)

Failing all that, if X-23 is by her lonesome without X-Factor against Dark Phoenix, you probably won’t win unless you get mad lucky with a random hit. If Dark Phoenix has X-Factor or Healing Field(or both LOL) your only hope is to somehow land Silent Kill, otherwise, run for your life and pray, or return to the character select screen.

There’s more info here, especially details on how to possibly kill Dark Phoenix as she rises from her activation: X-23 Can Control It: The Phoenix Matchup

I think discussing how to deal with/eliminate defensive assists like Tron/Haggar is a worthy discussion too.


#7

I’ve seen a lot of these matchups, but I’m not that good like you guys lol but I’ll weigh in on the first few:

VS Akuma: Talon Attack L can knock him outta ground Tatsu depending on the angle, you may trade if not positioned well enough. Pro Akuma’s won’t randomly Ground Tatsu though because it’s punishable even with its insane startup, it’s a match where first hit will probably win in the long run. Fortunately I believe X23 has more tools to setup Akuma bar assist than he can her.

VS Arthur: Not a matchup he likes to see, because X23 is one of the better wave dashes in the game. With a projectile assist (aim master, plasma beam) it only spells more trouble for Arthur. He’s not fast, and can easily Talon Dive his normals.

VS Ammy: Not one of X23 favoritable matches. Has an answer to her Talons with Reflector, throwing them out an random is not a good idea. Looking at Cold Star pressure if at distance, so can’t sit back long and think about what you are going to do nor predictable Charged Neck Slicer. To make matters worse most Ammys are paired with an invicible assist which interupt X23’s strings. Mist slows her(X23) down, which should be noted. Can be DHC glitch killed because of low health (Ammy), focus on getting Ammy into Weapon X Prime setups.

VS Viper: Both characters rely on great execution to do what they want to do, but I’d say Viper wins out if based on sheer priority. X23 trades that for some more speed, just be watchful for Vipers movements because she will in often cases catch you sleeping. Her normals are a bit better than X23 imo, and she has Focus Attack (something X23 doesn’t want to get hit by)


#8

^
I don’t know much about the Viper MU(only decent Viper player I’ve played is my friend) but when it comes to Viper, I also think FA>EX Seismo is a massive threat for X-23. Normal-wise, I think X-23 has the edge, but Viper controls space very well with Seismos and has a whole buncha invul moves to put an end to X-23’s offence and blow up whatever assist X-23 might have too at the same time so it’s probably best to keep an eye on Viper’s meter at all times. It’s a shame nobody’s truly mastered Viper.


#9

Well I know for sure that the focus attack when charging up gets blown up by ground throws easily. Just mash on throw immediately after you press c.L or s.M or and you’ll throw her out of the focus. I haven’t played too much against focus attack to EX seismo using Vipers but I guess there’s not much you can do about that other than blocking. What’s the motion to get that to work any way?


#10

I have a friend that’s like commited in learning/maining Viper, and he’s pretty good too but not crazy or anything. Viper with tons of meter to spend is not something X23 wants to see, I see a lot of Viper’s put in TAC based teams for the sole purpose of meter gain.

VS Captain America: From what I’ve seen all of them try to shield toss X23 into devestating combos. X23 simply needs to respect his sheild, it pretty much leads to everything he wants to do. With her speed and talons she will have many opportunites to get him in what she wants to do.

VS Chris Redfield: His normals are good and they cover distance well. X23 needs to be careful about rushing him down, he’s good at controling space and setting traps for her to fall right into. X23 needs to bring her best stuff against him because he has the life to take some of her basic B&Bs. He’s another character that often times is paired with Haggar, interupting X23’s strings/feints.

VS Chun-Li - Her Lighting Legs beats everything X23 wants to do. Even talons are at mercy to it :frowning: because X23 has low health she will feel even the most basic Chun-Li combos. The hitbox on those legs are crazy, X23 must play smart around Chun-Li. Even mashers have a chance of beating you because most of X23’s moves are obsolete against lighting legs.

VS Deadpool: One on One Deadpool is trouble against X23. His S is punishable, has a bit range on his crounching attacks nothing to really make X23 think twice about going all out on him. Most will pineapple surprise/gunshoot you until they figure out your X23 playstyle, then adjust. Try to catch him sleeping with talon attack, X23 can talon his gunshots and set him up for feints if guessed correctly.


#11

When it comes to Chun Li I know ground lighting legs gets beat clean by L talon attack on top of her head. On the ground she has a vulnerable hit box at her head that the L talon attack done from super jump height can blow up (I remember testing this out on release of the game). If you really need to get her out of there you can just throw out rage trigger if she’s spamming it from a distance and if it lands turn on XF and kill her off. Rage trigger is basically a DP that’s invincible from frame 1 that has a huge hit box so there’s no start up to worry about. If it lands turn on XF before the 3rd spin that makes you airborne and then just jump up in the air and combo her to death.

If Chun Li is in the air you can use L or M crescent scythe (preferably tiger kneed or do the airborne versions for safeness) to beat it out or trade with it. The more you can get it to hit under her body while she’s in the air the better. If she’s abusing the air legs and she’s low enough to the ground you can do the same rage trigger XF kill her off shit. It’s basically a match that’s easier if you’re willing burn meter and XF to blow her up similar to Wolverine. If you don’t XF it’s otherwise a losing matchup I would say.

She’s good at blowing up other rushdown characters but dies to anyone with a decent projectile game especially if they’re backed with projectile assist. Characters like Dante and Magneto are hell for her to fight because she doesn’t have anything that gets her through on projectile lame out easily. Practically every move Dante has beats legs so if it’s a Chun Li on point you can just substitute Dante in first if he’s on your X23 team and just shut her out with someone who’s way better in the matchup.


#12

Dante and Magneto are imho both 7-3 or worse for her. Taking assists out of the equation as much as possible (what’s the point of this MU list if we are going to take assists into account, the number of different MU’s would be semi-infinite) she is never going to get into a good position, ever.

Magneto can zone her out for free, all day. He has options for every way she has to get in and can switch from defense to offense whenever he wants. Plus one touch is all he needs to kill her.

Dante is pretty much the same, with the difference that you can slowly advance through his shit, only to find a wall made out of swords in your path. Advancing by air is suicide with that ridiculous hammer of his and his 360 hitboxes and on the ground his normals and reverb shock when trying to counter are nigh-impossible to get past unless the player makes a mistake. Admittedly, she has the advantage at point blank where, as mentioned, staggered strings and Talon dives to blow up AG’s are really useful tactics.

Overall though, X23 is going to be taking a LOT of damage trying to get in with these characters, and even then the odds of safely staying in are really not in her favor.

Assists can offset some of these deficiencies but 1v1… yeah.


#13

I have no idea how Vipers cancel FA into EX Seismo haha, I have to check the Viper forums. And yeah, up close, you can just throw her, simple as. Midrange FA>EX Seismo’s, pretty jarring. :frowning:

Mag’s pretty jarring too, but zoning-wise, there might be some decent ways to get past him but I haven’t touched this game in a while(thanks to having nobody to play with) so I’m gonna hit training mode right now.

Nice to see more guys from the Viper SF4 boards playing X-23 btw. :smiley:


#14

**People not understanding X-23’s reliance on assists to make her a complete character is part of what held her back for people on the forums early on. ** They didn’t understand the point of a character that needed assists just to do things like mix people up. Assists are important to consider just on the fact that they give X-23 tools for mix up that you basically have to guess to get out of. M mirage feint giving you a left right mix up with the correct assist that’s faster than Wolvie’s, H feint giving you a high low and a cross up with a good lock down assist and command grab giving you the option to blow up people sitting on ground block too long when you get them afraid of air throws.

There’s no reason you can’t add assists into the equation when assists are a big part of the game. It’s not like every assist is uniquely powerful in this game. Literally only about 20 percent of the assists in the game have powerful enough offensive/defensive capabilities to be worth talking about. It’s not like MVC2 where there’s a ton of ridiculous assists. Like with Wolverine you know that guy is going to be stacked with Akuma assist or Drones and as long as you have an Akuma assist yourself or strong beam assist you can definitely fight the assist fight. Sometimes doing better in a matchup basically calls for a character switch for X23 so you have more options to clear a path for offense. Which is what is great about the game. Your matchup is only as bad as how well you set your team up.** Viscant won Evo with Haggar (Wolverine left/right mix up counter) assist but in a lot of earlier matchups he switched up between Tron and Iron Man assist depending on the matchup.**

**Plus there’s no reason to discuss what would happen in a 1v1 scenario since X23 has zero mix up without an assist. M feint, H feint and command grab, her 3 main special move based mix ups unique to her are useless without assists. She’s not even a functioning character of the game without an assist. **The only character X23 can scare without an assist is maybe Haggar without assists. All she has are frame traps into throws that aren’t really that good unless you learn MFC and get down her instant talon dive game. There is literally no reason X23 should be on the screen without a strong assist that clears projectiles and other assists for her and doubles as a hit box set up for her mirage feint mix ups. Assists like plasma beam, tatsu, sent drones, unibeam, weasel shot, cold star, task hori arrows etc. are pretty much essential for X23’s rushdown and mix up. Without assists like those X23 is practically useless. Those assists give her mix ups that are faster and harder to react to than even Wolverine but without them you’re a rather obvious pixie character that has trouble getting in. Then even when you do get in your mix up is garbage compared to say Felicia or Jill without assists. If for some reason your X23 is on screen by herself without a strong assist she might as well not be on the screen at all.

Magneto I had problems with early when I first started picking up X23 but that’s about it. She has a lot of tools to deal with his specific type of zoning and having a strong assist is all you really need to compliment her movement options and get you in. If Magneto had a teleport this matchup would be more of a problem but without that not a huge deal. Typical assists for him like sent drones can be shut down as long as you have akuma tatsu and throw it out as soon as you get in or doom beam to keep drones from getting on the screen from any range. X23 has a really quick wave dash and strong wall jump game to compliment her assist to get in. Plus now that I know that her mirage feint hold stance goes under disruptah that takes out a lot of the fire he normally has keeping you out. Just hit S to cancel after you go under the disruptah and if you’re close enough you’ll be in range to punish his recovery or at least start amounting an offense on him. Once you get in on Magneto shit is pretty free unless he has Haggar/Tron assist. His ground normals can’t compete with yours at all and you can easily air throw him out of air dash attempts from that range.

If you’re really desperate against Magneto you’ve always got the desperation Weapon X Prime to get through a possible start of a disruptah or hyper grav. If you hit him, DHC glitch him out the match. If not, safe DHC if possible into another character like Dante/Zero/Ryu/Akuma/Dorm etc. Also helps to have a character that can fight him better from a range to safe DHC into. Sometimes the match isn’t just about the one on one but since it’s a team based game it’s also about what character you can do to change up strategy. DHC glitch allows her to kill Magneto in one combo also so there’s no real damage difference with the right setup. With Magneto being as strong as he is going for the XF kill is a solid option also especially if you’re at level 2 XF.

**Overall I would say at worst it’s 4/6 in Mags favor but I would lean it more towards a 4.5/5.5 due to all her options to get in and the damage difference between them especially with DHC glitch being not much different. **

**Dante I would say is definitely more of a problem than Mags unless you start to get near point blank range. **Too many mid ranged tools that have extremely huge hit boxes or have huge hit boxes plus invincible frames. Plus Dante has the one big tools that Magneto doesn’t have for scaring the shit out of you which is teleport. With a strong assist backing up Dante if he calls hysteric or multi lock and gets them fully out on screen…you’re pretty much forced to deal with a mix up no matter where he is on screen. Which means most of the purpose of fighting Dante is is to either have a strong fast screen clearing assist to help knockout the start up of his assist or tracking projectile special. If you don’t have that the matchup is effectively garbage because once he gets either of those moves out on the screen you basically have to block right no matter where you are or die.

X23’s really small crouch box makes it a bit harder for Dante to do normal air dash H pressure but air dash M cross up really low to the ground will still easily hit her and put her in combos. If you feel Dante is going to hammer your best bet is to wait for the hammer first and if he did it too high in the air dash down to blow up the 5 frame recover with c.L as he lands. If you feel he’s going to jump up and hammer again just do a preemptive air throw since if he tries to hammer again he’ll get blown up out of the slow start up. Once you air throw him turn on XF or if you have the right assists pop him up into a big combo or DHC glitch combo and kill him. He’s too good of a character to leave lying around once you hit him.

If you can get in on Dante the match is pretty free but of course Dante’s mid range tools makes that nearly impossible without Akuma assist or a strong beam assist. If Dante didn’t have a teleport and ridiculous sword normals it’d be similar to fighting Magneto where you just stop and go until you get in. Especially when Dante’s projectiles are all tracking based or generally very large in hit box so you can’t crouch or mirage feint hold under them. If you’re desperate your best bet is to go to the Weapon X DHC route and get someone else in. L talon attack blows up his sword normals but it’s definitely a good luck getting in range to do that thing. ** Definitely 4/6 or 3.5/6.5 in Dante’s favor. If you get in its more free than Magneto but anywhere else and you are in shit. You’ll pretty much need a strong assist just to stay competitive in this match.**


#15

Feint M is generally considered useless bar no assist, it’s more safer to wave dash in that reguard. I find Feint H a big part of X23 game, not only does it extended her combo potential but it does has some mixup properties for hitting low crouchers. What assist do for X23 is generally make feints more safe to put in perspective, feints are otherwise risky options to move in closer or preform the act of a mixup.

The discussion of X23 being a solo character is what I think we all don’t want to see but capcom intended for us to do. It’s probably why X23 can’t really threaten to kill anything not unless in XF, of course anything in XF3 immediately threatens anything. But factoring no XF, no assist for both players, etc. is pretty situational itself. In fact, I don’t like Haggar matchup 1v1 because Haggar has a monstrous ground game and invicible lariat that must be respected for rushdown characters like X23. We also factor in the pipe, which is more of an annoyance I would figure.

Good projectile assist definitely aid X23’s chances of survival against magneto. Otherwise, it’s a uphill battle. X23’s own pairing of drones assist rushdown gets blown up by magneto distruptor.


#16

Haggar doesn’t really have a monstrous ground game 1 v 1. The whole point of why haggar as an assist is so good is because he has a point character running around him doing shit while he’s doing the lariat. When he’s 1 v 1 there’s no one to swing around him during the lariat. You can just crouch near him and press c.L and if he swings lariat it’s going to whiff and all he can do is cancel into level 3 which you can jump away from and if he can’t cancel into that he’s going to cancel into some super that’s punishable on block. Which means 1 v 1 Haggar shouldn’t be doing lariat except as a last resort and the damage he gets off of it is minimal without XF any way. His ground normals are compared to X23’s and pipe is easily beaten by smart wave dashing towards him after it whiff and air throwing or jump anti airing the next one into a combo.

Even with that there’s really no reason to even discuss the Haggar vs. X-23 matchup because the only way X-23 will ever be by herself against Haggar is because you have X23 as an anchor or some other poor team structure with her. She should never see the light of day of 1v1 against Haggar. Competitively it shoudn’t even exist. If for some reason you’re in the twilight zone and it does happen, you basically still win unless he has XF and you don’t where his pipe game becomes harder to anti air. Without XF his pipe is incredible easy to wave dash up anti air. Even if he has XF just let him pop it and then use H talon attacks and wall jumps to burn it out and then he has practically nothing again.

Feint M is far from useless because it gives her access to what is easily one of the best mix ups in the game and the safest one for her to use. All she has to do is get within attacking range of you and force you into a tick situation with her c.L’s and then call a projectile or fast horizontal attack assist and they have to deal with the fastest 50/50 mix up in the game. If they don’t block it right, you get a combo on the other side. Even if they do block it right…they have to stay blocking and the assist keeps them locked down so you can set up another frame trap, throw, talon dive/attack, H feint etc. If you haven’t been opening people up with X23 it pretty much directly correlates to not having a solid projectile or direct horizontal assist to set up the M feint 50/50. M feint with assist should always be your main mix up. It’s the fastest mix up you have and basically the fastest mix up in the game.

In general the whole point of making a team is so that it has something to cover itself no matter what happens. If X23 has to go in against Magneto I have her second with doom beam assist so I can clear out his drones assist that he pretty much 90 percent of the time always has with him that has terrible start up. Then I’ll have XF2 ready to make myself faster if needed to get in but a lot of the time I just wait for a good point to get doom beam to knock magneto or his drones away and wall jump or M talon attack across and get in.

If you don’t have a strong projectile assist or other assist that can blow through sent drones your best bet is to use your team structure to save you from Magneto. If you don’t have someone in the back that can get you through Magneto plus drones then put X23 second instead of first and have someone in the front that does a better job against that kind of pressure. Which means have someone like Dante, Wesker, Ammy or Trish in the front who can deal with that pressure a bit better. Which is pretty much how I have my team set up. Someone who can deal with lame Mags shit without thinking about it up first, then X23 with an assist that will allow her to get in on it if that fails. Dante has hardly ever failed that for me of course since level 2 charged air play plus doom beam shuts down that zone pretty much entirely and sets up teleports easy.

Long story short…even the hyper guide and strategy guide tells you that X23 is not much more than a frame trap character without assists. Capcom purposely made X-23 to be a character that is reliant on assists for practically EVERYTHING. Even her level 3. You’ll notice that pretty much any special move you do with her becomes a lot scarier with a strong projectile or horizontal attack assist and that’s what makes X-23 so unique. When you learn to use assists with her she pretty much teaches you how to play the game because you need that type of assist strategy with any character really to get the most out of them.

The idea basically is to embrace the fact that X-23 must find the right assists to make her special moves turn from mildly threatning to impossible to block against.


#17

Hmm, I’ve actually been trying to work on an X-23 that works with lockdown pressure. I run X-23/Wesker/Dormammu (been running that from day 1, without DHC in mind etc)

Now, the obvious problem here is that her left/right game isn’t optimized because I don’t have a beam/cold-star assist. However, with Dormammu assist she can easily convert any random Talon dive into a ToD and her corner pressure becomes impossible to escape (I’ve won entire matches where I got the opponent in the corner early on and didn’t get out after that).

Obviously trying to get in with this team is a little bit harder (which is why I mentioned Magneto and Dante as 7-3 matchups) but when playing a solid footsie game I feel it’s got some real potential.

edit. also, that bolding of text that you do Deviljin, get’s really annoying. I know why you do it, but it just feels like you’re shouting and trying to stuff statements down my throat -_-.


#18

I have allergies and got a throat infection a while back that keeps me from raising my voice like I used to so shouting at people is usually the last thing I do in my everyday life. Definitely no shouts. LOL. It’s just there to help for the tl;dr since I can type as fast as I talk.

Other than that…I definitely think there’s room for improvement in those matchups with better understanding of X23’s movement tools and pairing her with the right assists. Dante and Magneto are basically characters where they have a lot of lame shit but if you find a way to get in they’re pretty fucked because they just don’t have the ground normals to deal with you at close range (very few characters do really). Once you get in you can start running the c.L’s and MFC’s and they pretty much gotta sit there and take it unless they have Tron or Haggar. Which at that point you’ll just have to bait those. Generally I would only consider either of those matches 7/3 bad if they have Tron or Haggar because then you must break up your pressure and potentially put yourself in a mix up when you finally get in. If they’re just on their typical sent drones, akuma tatsu, beam stuff…definitely more fightable.


#19

Yeah agreed, my matchup numbers come from a Magneto/Dante/Tron team.

Shit is aggravating.

Also, sorry to hear that. Like I said, I know why you do it, but be real; people who go tl;dr are probably going to miss the point of whatever it is that you bolded anyway.


#20

I’m getting wrecked by Magneto Drones right now. Any tips on how to deal with this other than not have X-23 first? Or is a beam assist a necessary requirement for them?