X Factor Discussion


#1

Is X Factor a good addition to MVC3 in general?

Are you losing because of X Factor?

Are you winning because of X Factor?

Do you use it for the dmg or do you save it for the third and final character?

Discuss.

Me personally, I always save it for my third and final character OR use it after my opponent uses it. I always use it second or wait until the 20 second mark to activate it with my final character. I use Wolverine, Akuma, and Taskmaster and all of them are insane IMO with X Factor.

Wolverine w Bers Charge and lvl 3 is nearly impossible to react to and does insane dmg without meter. Hes fantastic.

Akuma can either chip out with projectile hypers or provide INSANE pressure with his overhead and tatsu.

Taskmaster does insane chip dmg and has a faster startup time on his arrows.

Discuss your thoughts on X Factor.

Personally, I think it sucks and was merely made for the people who got down to their final character in MVC2 and got put on blast. At best, it should not be as beneficial as it is.

Increased speed, dmg output, safer attacks, faster health regeneration, no chip, more chip dmg w your own attacks, lasts for 20% of the round, equivalent to the ultra and can negate anything you’ve done to them up to that point. If they land 1-2 combos on lvl 3…you lose the round. Doesn’t matter how many times you raped them, built meter w air exchanges, performered DHC combos to tag in safely, and all that hard work. You get hit by amaterasu, wolverine, arthur, akuma, sentinel, or morrigan lvl 3 crap…you die.

Not to mention when

Dante has Devil Trigger
Wolverine has Bers charge
Arthur has super armor
Sent just does it…

they are insanely more powerful then the average character w X Factor.


#2

How I would make x-factor less stupid:

Keep speed increase for level 2 and level 3 X-factor
Keep timer increase for level 2 and level 3 x-factor
Make all levels of x-factor have a damage boost of the median value between the current level-1 and level-2 x-factor.

Keep everything else as is. I bet if it were like this, you’d see less complaining and it’d look like less bullshit when someone uses it.


#3

In general, ‘rage’ type comeback mechanics are completely bullshit, because you benefit from them just playing as you usually would and have zero risk involved. You’re landing your combos, but because the game WANTS you to come back, you just so happen to be doing a billion damage. You can’t get punished for using x-factor.

At least with ultras in SSF4, for example, there are things you can look out for to minimise the advantage they grant, and punish bad use, for example not getting caught in a 720 ultra and punishing appropriately.


#4

I liked it before and I like it even more after Final Round. The amount of comebacks credited to X-Factor was huge and the last matches would have been much less interesting without it (thinking of Combofiend’s Spencer here).

Also deciding when to use it is a major strategic decision. Are you willing to burn it early to get rid of one character or would you rather save it to survive against the chip of a 5 bar Dormammu? There are no safe blockstrings while a character has X-Factor, so are you willing to rush the crap out of thor? Etc.

And this is possibly the 5th X-Factor discussion thread.


#5

To me this is a no brainer. I literally say “LOL” when I see someone use X Factor early against me. It’s a horrible strategic decision to not use it w AT LEAST your second to last character w really low health or with the final character standing on his own.

If you kill someone or get a giant lead with your x Factor activation…it still does not matter. If the other person waits and activates when they have one person left you literally have nothing to stop the other persons X Factor. You MUST block and you MUST defend. Imagine defending X Factor against Akuma, Deadpool, Magneto, Sentinel, Arthur, Morrigan w her hyper, or Wolv. If the other person has meter and X Factor and you have 2 characters left against their one there is a pretty good chance you’re screwed. I think its comeback potential makes it stupid…not interesting. All of your hard work, meter gauging, etc. will mean nothing because you can’t defend as well. Heck, if they have four or five bars they can just full screen hyper you with Arthur or Sentinel and you can’t do a thing about it but eat the dmg. If the time is low and they activate X Factor w one character w good offense you have no choice but to attack because you can’t defend because their chip on their hypers or just regular offense is god like.

And if you mess up while trying to hit them…you still lose. It’s pretty much broken. Never use X Factor early because it leaves it as a no brainer for the other person to use it w one character left so they can just chip you all day long full screen w projectiles and balogni and force you to play their game for 20 seconds marvel time.

I’m not complaining about it…because i’ve definitely won matches by activating X Factor but when I win…I don’t care because I know it was so random bullshit my opponent could do little to nothing about.

Arthur hyper armor cross bow, daggers, and lances
Wolverine berserker slash and Drill Claw
Magneto Disruptor
Storm Ice Storms
Sentinel sent force
Akuma any combo or hyper
Morrigan mirror

are beyond CRAZY. I had my lvl 3 X Factor Arthur win a match on his own and take out three people after my opponent killed my Akuma and Wolverine in the same combo from a mistimed assist. I just had enough meter built and just camped w cross bow and blocked the random full screen hypers he tried to do to stop my camping and i won. It was probably the dumbest match i’ve ever played. I won after getting raped and outplayed. This is a big reason as to why I’m not putting money into this game. I know that i’ll enter an event and lose to some random bull crap. I just feel like whenever X Factor is activated people just get mad random to try and stop it because they can’t do anything about it otherwise and that makes it unbalanced and scrubby. If some of the perks were nerfed or changed i’d be very happy with that. Too many benefits.


#6

Eh…we already had an xfactor thread but…

I think its fine outside of some characters being super derp mode in level 3 like Sent. Otherwise I like how 3 on 1’s aren’t impossible to win anymore and well it gives the scrubs something so everybody wins.

I don’t agree with the whole notion of “not being able to be punished” when using X Factor. The whole point of utilizing the X Factor is making sure you have it available and use it as well as your opponent. There’s also only a set time frame that you can use X Factor and for scrubs their only hope is to use it when they are down to their last character and hope the opponent doesn’t turtle it out so they can ride it to victory. Ultras you get to hold onto for the entire fight and pretty much lend free damage to come back with whenever u finally decide to use it. In Super SFIV they luckily toned down the damage of ultras, but you still get access to them whenever u want and are part of your arsenal the entire fight as opposed to a 10-20 second at most duration with X Factor.


#7

I like that it keeps people on their toes even when it’s 3v1, but I don’t understand some of the design decisions around the bonuses, like when giant characters with no mixup get ridiculous damage boosts but no additional speed to help them get in.


#8

But a big part of the game is managing a TEAM, not managing a character.

In theory, I could have a team of X, X, Sentinel and just see how much dmg I could do the whole game and then when my other characters die bring in Sentinel, turn on X Factor and go to work and win.

How is that fun/cool/good to a competitive game?

I see both sides of the spectrum with Competitive Play VS Accessibility but I think that its just toooo powerful. If the highest you could get was LVL 2 even w one character…i’d be down. 20 secs marvel time is like 2 minutes real time.


#9

20 seconds is probably too long for level 3 X Factor but…that can always be changed with a patch. At high level play I feel people are pretty good at managing their X Factors so it all works out.

In the X Factor rating list Sentinel is considered the most powerful in X Factor because he gets the best combination of strength and speed increase of any character in the game. At the same time though Sentinel without X Factor lately has become much less of a threat and arguably his drone assist is becoming more powerful when used with another character than when he’s out on the screen by himself. It’s so apparent that people are employing strategies like snapping Sentinel in just so they can be in a prime position to rush down his ridiculously big hit box and stop the use of his assist which acts as a zoning tool, block string, hit confirm and combo breaker all in one. She Hulk and Ama have already been proven to be characters that pretty much shit on Sentinel to the point where he needs an assist just to even stand a chance.

Not to say that he’s a bad character without X Factor but its obvious the character was designed to succeed via the power of it. Without it he’s way more manageable and people are starting to figure that out along with figuring out characters that directly counter him in general. Outside of Sentinel I feel most of the other characters can be powerful in X Factor but not at quite the level that Sentinel is where his solid combination of speed and strength become overpowering. Which people are already finding good answers to by just focusing on killing him first. Whether that’s through snapping him in or catching the laggy sent drone assist so he loses all of his health ridiculously fast. Then snap him.


#10

You’re getting the time wrong. It’s 20 seconds real time and 11-12 sec in game for X-Factor lvl 3.

Man it’s a mechanic avaiable to both sides. If you’re so afraid of it or of using it offensively, just save it for when the opponent activates. Making a bad comparison, it’s like complaining of FADC Shoryuken in a Ryu mirror match.

I can also hardly believe a single character (with few exceptions) can kill 3 others during X-Factor unless the opponent is just holding foward. Just the tag-ins will run considerable time and the x-factored fella needs to find his way in 3 times. People were laming Phoenix, a character with homing fireballs and teleport, for 50 sec+ in Final Round, I don’t see why someone can’t lame X-Factor for 20 seconds.


#11

Well part of the reason why people were able to lame out regular Phoenix at that tourney was pretty much every Phoenix there outside of Mike Infinite and F.Champ was garbo without D.Phoenix. Phoenix is nearly as strong and capable of opening people up as D.Phoenix but it requires more work and knowledge of her tri jump game that the average Phoenix player isn’t really employing. They’re just riding the “I hope I get to D.Phoenix” strategy which gets turtled out when they are forced to play offensively with a character that has really good offense. Which unfortunately they dont know how to apply and get turtled out waiting for D.Phoenix to come out so the mash R Type s. and c.L’s FTW.

I think a lot of people are just getting overwhelmed by the game because it requires you to remember and deal with a lot of stuff very fast so its not very coherent to people who are used to playing SFIV where u just remember footsies, spacing, matchups some OSes and mix ups and there ya go. In SFIV it just comes down to whoever is the most clutch at those things basically (or even less depending on the character). Mahvel is designed where u have to deal with a lot of strong ass shit very fast and if u dont have a gameplan and enact it very fast it can just go to shit very fast. Mahvel has always been a game where the first match can pretty much be won through complete randomness just due to the volatility of a bad situation like calling a bad assist and then 2 of your characters die in 5 seconds. X Factor helps to make the game less one sided when this happens but generally you see people die more than live when they go down to 1 character in the first 20 seconds. That’s why they did 3/5 for top 8 so the players have a better time getting adjusted to each other’s strategies and it was easier to see who had the better gameplan and clutch.

In games like SFIV you get rounds to adjust to your opponent but in Mahvel its like playing one round with two lifebars and the damage is higher. With all of the stuff you have to remember like your opponent’s assists, when to use your assists, remembering how to DHC correctly, adjusting to character position changes in your team, spacing yourself from characters option tri jump/mix up ranges, learning when u should use level 1/2/3 x factor etc. on top of how all of the characters can kill you very quickly it appears rather broken to people who aren’t used to games like that. Yet at high level play you see people make it work in a very strategic fashion and that’s pretty much why I can barely look at people play SFIV anymore…let alone play it. There’s just so much more to this game for me.


#12

I honestly think if X-Factor cost meter I would hate it less, other than that the only thing I like about it is the fact that you can cancel anything with it. They should implement some sort of risk factor when X-Factor is activated as well but, there isn’t.


#13

I quite like this XF discussion, though I disagree with a lot of the posts. It’s a well written thread overall.

Yes, I believe so.

It happens. I also lose to DHCs, Hypers, Zero’s nasty j:h: crossup, etc.

It happens. I also win with DHCs, Hypers, Wesker’s nasty teleport, etc.

There’s more than two ways to use it. For me it depends on the situation, but before I explain I wanna lay down some personal premises:

  • I rather not use XF for the third character, I think it fosters ‘crutch play tendencies’ where you pretty much go in expecting to lose two characters. It’s intellectually lazy, imo.
  • I find XF much more useful as a mid-game tool; either to buff my lead and keep my guys alive longer (may use lvl1 or 2 XF), or to close the gap of a losing game (often lvl2 shortly after losing the first character).

Having said that, I *have *used lvl3 XF if I deemed it unnecessary throughout the match and have it saved up - but I don’t aim for lvl3 XF. It seems like such a cliche ‘after the fact’ use where people will eventually learn to let it run it’s course. After all if you have one character left, and I have 2 (or 3!), I have life and clock advantage. And even if you’re good at chasing people down, you have to do it two times toward KOs and at least bleed my last character to even the health - assuming your ‘Clutch Factor’ didn’t run out by then.

When I get OCV’d by lvl3, I have no choice but to blame myself. It’s not an ‘I win’ card, I had a chance to avoid it or mitigate the player’s usage. When I win with lvl3 XF, it works both ways - the other player is still to blame.

I understand people are revolving entire strategies around lvl3 XF, this is their business, and I solute them even. Some people bust XF lvl1 to go for an opening assault (more people should do this, actually). Some, like me, use lvl2 depending on mid-match circumstance. Most, I guess, use lvl3 to mount a comeback. Sure, fine, whatever. I’ll expect it and act accordingly.

Anybody notice that people play worse when they revolve around lvl3 XF? Like a decent player in every other aspect of the match would fall on lvl3 XF Sent and suddenly go on auto-pilot, thinking laser-spit and Sentinel Force chip is still gdlk. I suppose without assist they simply have no other choice, but it is something I noticed.


#14

DevilJin has good points. The 3/5 top 16 was a great way to even out the randomness and should be repeated in the future.
XF3 Sentinel / DPhoenix are still scrub killers. But at high-level, XF3 Sentinel is lamed out, Phoenix is exposed before she becomes DPh or is simply lamed out by a mobile character at pixels of health. Folks who don’t have a solid gameplan will die to these characters well into the future and have lost before the match has started, forget XFactor. In SuperSF4 you manage one character, against another. In Marvel, you manage three characters, against three others - much more thinking involved on-the-fly because both you and your opponent have that many more options. If you don’t have a very strategic mind, Marvel can be a difficult game.

I’ve mentioned it before, but XFactor3 was used much less overall at Final Round and good players were quick to capitalize on catching 2 characters in a death combo with XF1 on numerous occasions. XF2 saw much more use because it seems that it is the most versatile, the damage boost, chip prevention and help for 2 characters. There were some premature XF1/XF2 activations, but for the most part things were done with a strategy in mind, and not just “wait to XFC into XF3 my anchor”. If anyone has seen matches of Winter Brawl, compare them with Final Round. The level of play and strategies against the commonly encountered characters is clearly on a different level.

And to troll I’d like to say … if only this game had a decent netcode.


#15

I think that every single aspect of MVC3 right now makes perfect sense and is balanced except for X Factor. Every character has tools to do what they need do, assists that can help them and nice combos to get their dmg in and compete.

Honestly, it just holds that ultra in SSF4 factor to me because you can be playing well the entire time and then make one mistake and they land a combo…and you die. End of story. On top of that it’s even perhpas WORSe then ultras in SSF4 because its a time constraint…not just one combo/move/hyper.

I agree w everything else you said Devil Jin about people learning Sentinel and how to fight him etc etc. Honestly, I just hold down back against him and if he gets close to me see if he likes to hit buttons or he goes for that command grab. Sentinel is for scrubs, and hes also the Scrub killer IMO. I also do think his assist is one of the best in the game near dooms missiles. Shits stupid. Easy mode assists.

But yeah, if we toned down X Factor to level 2 benefits for ALL no matter how many characters are standing I think that’d be awesome. It would deteriorate the need to camp with your X Factor and use it whenever you feel like. That’s balance.

Kalyx: If you activate X Factor early. I’ll just let you do your dmg/kill whoever and then keep running away. At the end of the round you have to deal with my final character with no defense to stop my lvl 3 x factor Bersker wolverine or hyper armor Athur. I’ll take those chances over lvl 1 activation. In a sense, it is clearly your best attribute on your team. Why not get the most out of it?


#16

Oh definitely, I don’t think the 3v1 situation should be equivalent. Obviously the guy on one character is at a big disadvantage, especially if the guy with 3 characters still has his X-Factor as well.

If the guy with 3 characters used his X-Factor already? Well, tradeoffs.

My point is, the game isn’t a complete wash when it gets to the 3v1 point, like it often was in MVC2 (think how remarkable Justin’s Cyclops comeback was at Evo 2007). It may be a bit over the top at the moment, but I think it’s a good mechanic in terms of making the game interesting and enjoyable.


#17

Well not everyone camps with Xfactor, but we can already use it whenever we feel.
It does hurt when you do make a mistake, but so did ultras… and we had the same steam of complaints about “herp derp DP-FADC-Ultra-i lost half my bar” back in the day. XF3 gives you 20 seconds of glory… perhaps way too long - applies to DPhonenix especially - her balancing factor is losing health; she doesn’t need 20 seconds to OCV your team - this imo is probably the only thing that sucks about XF3.

The damage & speed is fine in XF3 for a comeback factor because XF2 gives you access to something very similar, plus you have access to air exchange and DHC’s - making it probably useful moreso in the damage department to a skilled player.


#18

Honestly, as much as I don’t mind X-Factor, I think the game would be better off without it, at least in the salt factor department, because honestly, tweaking it won’t be enough for anyone. At this point we either keep it or get rid of it.


#19

But the “dmg/kill whoever” is the whole point. I’ll have health and clock advantage and would be pleased by your decision to runaway, unless you have particularly ‘offensive’ runaway.

Here’s the part where I runaway. Except my decision to be evasive is supported by other factors (health and clock, I must stress this). That’s also assuming I didn’t wait for lvl2 XF, or even lvl3. My point is while I value lvl2 over lvl3, it’s situational for me, whereas you seem to exclusively value lvl3…

Why not get the most out of whenever you activate it? A good decision is a good decision, and lvl1 or 2 XF can be a better decision than saving it.

For instance, and I saved this point for last; what if my early XF kills your Wolverine or Arthur?


#20

I’m not really concerned with whether or not x-factor is “broken.” It’s a mechanic available to both players, so in that regard it’s balanced. What I’m more concerned with is what it does to the pace of MvC3 matches.

A typical match starts off hyper-aggressively. Both players are launching a full offense and things are going very fast. Then, once one player gets down to 1 character and activates x-factor, the match grinds to a screeching halt. One player runs around the screen turtling and blocking while the other one fishes for random hits. That’s not fun. It completely kills what makes marvel fun for a third of a minute pretty much every match.

While not entirely on topic, Phoenix fits the same bill. She may very well be balanced, but the way she works is detrimental to the game because she also completely stops the flow of the match. Seeing whether or not the opposing player snaps her in and kills her may be sorta interesting, but if he doesn’t, you’re practically guaranteed nearly two minutes of watching one player super jump all over the place trying to stall out phoenix. That’s not fun to watch or play.

If either of these game elements are to be revisited, I don’t think it would be for “balance” (and since x-factor at least is available to everyone, it’s balanced in the actual sense of the word, ignoring the fact that every character gets different stat boosts, which imbalances the character, not x-factor itself). I think it would be to try to make these elements cause fewer stalls in matches. Maybe something like x-factored characters taking double damage would help.