I asked about this in the old Alpha 3 thread months ago, now that the game has had some new life put into it, does anybody actually know what the Tiers are for that Ism that nobody uses :wonder: ?.
Yeah. IIRC you wanted a tier list of who would be the best if they game were only in X-ISM, which is sort of an odd list…crouch canceling alone changes a lot, not to mention the fact that X-ISM characters are currently ranked by how well they do against V, and not X.
But, I’ll give it a shot:
Dhalsim beats way too many characters. Super is ugly, normals are ugly.
X-ISM Chun Li has always been good. Good normals, does nice damage to guard meter, stupid throw mixups (the more things change…), good crouch cancel ability. And, this is X-ISM; Chun has stupid juggle games already, now nobody can air block, so they get hit with random jumping Strong when they try to air recover and lose 50% damage, etc.
Zangief doesn’t even really require explanation. Rolento does beter against Dhalsim, but Zangief beats a great many characters ranked below him (though they get to hold out longer because of X-ISM longer guard bar, and they do more damage to him than other modes). I’d leave Dhalsim as #1, but otherwise the order of the top 4 is sorta hard to know.
Rolento has to work quite a bit harder against Zangief than the other way around. Rolento has a few really good normals for wearing down guard meter, and can run away pretty well.
Shotos: Ken’s super alone puts him above Ryu. Normals are better in X, I’d say, though Ryu can make people air-recover onto the fireball super, and still has the crazy juggle. Akuma is a question mark. X-Akuma has an infinite, so I hear. And raging demon actually isn’t bad, though it’s not as good as Ken or Ryu’s supers. Akuma has a lot of good stuff, and he keeps his hopkick in X-ISM, whereas Ryu loses his. Divekick a good move, as always.
Vega is good, though he misses his anti-air flipkick from V-ISM (and ST, for tha matter…). Guard meter his harder to wear down, but the super is decent (not as good as ST, of course), normals and air throw are still good, X-ISM takes twice as much chip damage as normal, so there’s that to worry about. Random hits and throws are doing better damage now…
Charlie pretty good. Good normals, gets to use the backfist while charging, like A-Charlie. Nobody can air block, so the flash kick is better. Misses the great no-charge anti-air he has in V-ISM…crouching Fierce and Strong are good, though the far Forward and Roundhouse are a bit more risky to use as you might get the close versions of the attack if you’re timing is off (you want to avoid getting the far Roundhouse in particular). He can do the spinkick move while charging (b+FK) and actually use that as anti-air against some attacks. Loses to Zangief in a bad way, though does well against shotos.
I like Blanka vs Shotos. Does OK vs Chun, loses to Dhalsim, and can actually do OK vs Zangief. Solid anti-air, super is good for defense (then again, everyone has a good super in X), good crouch cancels. Eletricity does good guard damage, so I think he actually sorta misses making people air block and then making them land on it.
Has some nice normals, and good defense. Random fact: X-Blanka’s vertical ball is off of the ground immediately, so if you ever get crossed up you can just do that and not have to worry about which way to block. Vertical ball better in general, because now nobody can air block, though standing Fierce a better anti-air, I’d think.
Balrog has nice priority, but it doesn’t matter becaause a trade is pretty much always in his favor. Super is good, because it’s immediately fully extended…Balrog’s arm (standing Fierce animation) is completely outstretched as soon as time unfreezes, so he can punsish all kinds of stuff…blocked medium attacks, various whiffed stuff. He misses the headbutt and the multi-level super from A-ISM, and the sweep dashing punch is also gone. However, Balrog’s dash punch hits crouchers in X-ISM, IIRC, and I think one of the versions also knocks down…Fierce? CPS chain is nice, blocked or not. Solid anti-air (crouching Fierce is mean in general, also standing Strong xx dash upper, etc). Seems to lose to Chun super-hard, though can hang on against Dhalsim and fight Zangief.
Rose has the most ridiculous super in the game, really. As far as X-ISM supers go, she’s at least top 3. The only thing is that it can be damage reduced (mashed) to lessen the damage. She has a few good normals, you probably don’t want to throw fireballs at her past sweep range; if she has super, ouch, if she doesn’t have super, you may be giving her one. Good crouch cancels, and can combo the Soul Throw from anti-air normals for nice damage vs X. Can link super from counter hit crouching Strong, and can link Jab after a Strong after a crossup to hit confirm that way. Short Soul Spiral (qcf+k) sets up a crossup, and no X-ISM characters can ground recover to get out of it. Loses to Chun, so hard. So hard.
Adon’s jumping kicks good, super is safe if blocked (mash P) and goes through fireballs, DP is good. Has some good normals, but I really don’t know his matches to well…
Cammy has a couple of good normals, and now actually does damage. CPS chain is nice, c.JP xx s.FP if blocked, and you can do the same into super if you’re close after a crossup. Super is easy to link into. Hooligan Combination (head scissors command throw) doesn’t do Juni damage, but is nice to have.
Karin has some great normals, and keeps pretty much all of them from A/V. Super is good, though she misses the multi-level supers from A, and the option to do the kick super. Has hit confirm combos…crouching Short x2, standing Short into rekkas into elbows, IIRC.
Honda gets a damage boost. Ass drop still good (Short version is safe if blocked, if they try to retaliate you can go into another one right away, because he’s invincible most of the way up), slightly better because they can’t block. I don’t know about his non-charging anti-air, I assume standing Rounshouse is pretty good, though he can’t do it while charging… X-ISM far standing Fierce (old crouching Fierce animation) not bad. IIRC the A/V-ISM standing Forward was pretty good, don’t know about the X-ISM version. Don’t know if the X-ISM crouching Fierce (double slap) is worth anything. Because block damage is higher, HHS is a bit better, as is the super. Still has the problem of being a defensive character in a game with guard meters, and that a lot of his good moves make him want to walk into mid-range, which makes him lose his charge.
Juni…I don’t know. She has the Cross Scissors Pressure for big damage, but the fact that she’s a charge character hurts her so much. Super is legit anti-air, I think, though she has other options. Still has pretty much her entire moveset from A and V minus the kick super and ACs.
Birdie gets a damage boost. Has good jumping attacks, and a few moves like far standing Fierce and crouching strong which help him on the ground. Punch throw is uglier. Good crouch cancels. Bull Horn (hold/release 2p or 2k) is nice as anti-air and can beat pretty much all non-low attacks. Super could be better.
Gen. Gen loses everything. Well, a lot. Can still cancel to super from crouching Forward, though. A few strong normals, pretty decent crossup, and can hit confirm to supers. Loses a lot of his tricks, but he’s solid.
Sak has the CPS chain stuff, particularly after a crossup. Speaking of the crossup combo, nobody can do ground recovery now, which limits their options. Still has the standing Roundhouse, but loses the crazy close Fierce from V-ISM, or at least she can’t do it on command anymore. Still can setup a crossup from a throw or sweep, crouch cancels are nice, because she has some buff air attacks (jumping Strong in particular).
Sodom likes his new damage. I’m not sure about his priority relative to his X/A versions. Super is pretty good. Daikyo Burning (360+k) does crazy damage, I’m sure. Has some good normals, though he can’t cancel the far standing Strong anymore. Butsumetsu (360+p) mixups are more rewarding, for obvious reasons.
Guy misses his supers.
Sagat loses some stuff. A lot of stuff. Tiger Uppercut is nice, but the super could be better. Normals are still OK. Tiger Shots are nice, since air blocking is gone.
Mika is OK. Not so great vs shotos, but has a few good moves which do nice damage, the stupid anti-air headbutt move, and has some combos with the X-ISM super (though she’d much prefer to use three of the level 1 A-ISM super instead.
Cody has some nice normals and crouch cancels, pretty solid all around, and has some good corner stuff, but the super is pretty limiting. I think you can cc into it in the corner, and that’s pretty much the end of it’s use. Weaker defense than V…people are scared to attack him then, because they don’t want to get hit with the VC, or have to worry about getting dodged…not so, vs X.
X-Bison isn’t good. He’s a pretty decent turtle in A, and the Psycho Crusher super is good. Bison loses the teleport, though he gets the Balrog-like kick super which is quick. Would be better to use a level 2, though. Jump is huge, has some OK crouch cancels. Solid defense, but doesn’t have much going for him.
Dan is great, relative to Juli.
Juli sorta sucks.
Ugh, there’s no way Akuma would be upper tier in an X-ism list. If we’re talking X-ism only, he’s in ass-tier, easily. X-ism increases the damage he takes, which is already more than other characters, and then against another X-ism character he takes even more damage still … uh uh, too much. And when his ONLY super is the Shungokusatsu (which DOESN’T benefit from the X-ism damage increase), his tactics are predictable and limited. And I haven’t heard of any such infinite with X-Akuma (even if he did have one, I doubt it’d be practical in a real match).
Shungokusatsu works in A-ism (where I’d say he’s upper tier, but not top tier) because he has everything else to work with and the mere threat of it can screw up opponents, make them overly cautious and nervous and force a guessing game, and set them up for the other nasty combos and cancels he can access in A-ism.
TS has spoken. backs hands you Silence Biatch.
But honestly I think X-Rog is better than Akuma, def better than Blanka. free dash punch on blanka balls.
Hey, if there’s something about X-Akuma I don’t know, I’d be glad to see it. It’s just that I don’t see how he could make up for his disturbingly low constitution and the loss of his Demon Flips.
All my Akuma experience is in V-ism (especially) and A-ism.
Akuma still has good…everything. He loses the overhead flip, but that was mostly useless outside of V-ISM anyway. He does heavy damage, SGS can actually be used as wakeup and even anti-air. He definitely has problems- he takes high damage, and still is easier to dizzy than most characters.
The infinite is the jumping hurricane kick, which isn’t so impractical, as nobody in X-ISM can air block. A/V-Akuma have a recovery period after they do a hurricane kick in the air, but from what I hear Akuma doesn’t, which allows X-Akuma to have the infinite.
He’s not SO bad, you just can’t get hit, ever, by anyone, ever. He should probably be in third tier, though.
A3 normally pretty hard to tier, and with only X-ISM, with everyone doing high damage, things are just as blurry. Vega should probably be a bit lower, Birdie a bit higher.
About Balrog vs Blanka, Balrog might do well in that match, but I’d take Blanka vs Chun li or shotos before I’d go with Balrog. Balrog does a lot better vs Dhalsim, though, and probably vs Zangief too. So I guess he should be a bit higher.
Rather than make a new thread, I thought I’d ask here: Who’s good in X-ism as a general matter (i.e., with V- and A-ism included)? I want to give X-ism a try, but I don’t want to spend time learning a character I could never take to the arcade.
In no particular order, Ken, Rolento, Zangief, Dhalsim, Chun Li, and Rose are pretty good, among others.
I would li0ke to dis-agree with bison bieng so low in the trier listing, wasnt he top-tier before VCs were discoverred?