Yang vs Urien - Need help toppling the Thongman

yang

#1

Yes, this is a cry of desperation. At least vs Ken, combos do good damage and scares them into playing more sensibly. But against Uriens, they don’t even care because his stamina is so good. Deadeye, I’m looking at you because you play Emphy right? The Urien who’s giving me the most trouble plays like RX too, but it’s all the other Uriens as well. I just can’t keep the lead against this character, it’s my worst matchup right now. To summarize:

Good things about Yang:
-c.HP hits Urien’s hitbox in a weird way; beats headbutts and many pokes, but loses to s.HP (most Uriens don’t seem to know that)
-SA3 might be a good choice because of Urien’s lack of wakeup options?
-slashes are quite safe (on block) compared to other characters because Urien doesn’t have a fast super or anything

My biggest problems:
-when c.MK x first slash gets parried, it means low fierce. If you’re close enough, even if you do EX mantis instead, it can still get low fierced
-dive kick games are incredibly risky: if you hit too high and he parries it, you’re dead. If you hit too low or whiff, you get headbutted
-I have never seen a video of Boss, Goemon, or KO against a Urien
-Uriens parry a lot. If they miss, I get a decent bit of damage, but if they guess right I lose at least 30% health or get cornered. I’m assuming they know this, which is why they keep doing it

I just don’t understand why this matchup is so hard for me. I can win the ones where I’m at a disadvantage, but not this. I’m going to re-watch Roshihikari vs RX right now.

Edit: For reference’s sake, Roshihikari plays Pierre and RX in the 2nd ranbat of season 5 which took place on 10/28/06.

Things I’ve noticed in this video so far (some of them I already knew):
-at close range Urien’s j.HK doesn’t seem to hit crouching Yang, so you can c.MK under it (when you’re under his thigh, basically)
-far HP (and to a lesser degree, far MP) are good pokes, work well against random headbutt and jump attempts/j.HK, and poorly timed pokes like when he’s building meter
-walk up throw is good because if Urien headbutts (which doesn’t hit) you can tech in time, unlike command grab where you’ll get thrown, in fact I don’t recall seeing Roshi use the command grab even once against RX
-when Urien empty jumps, Roshi does either MP chain combo, or c.MK x mantis to catch his landing (oddly, even when he’s in prime j.HK range?)
-Urien’s upward sphere animation widens his hitbox, you can hit from pretty far with fierce or EX mantis, probably s.HP also
-Roshi starts doing c.MK and following up with nothing so that RX waits for the next parry, later on he adds the mantis and dies because of it
-Roshi never really dive kicks with the intention of hitting, only using it for spacing/chasing purposes


#2

I have the same problems, I found these vids they might help you

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xQGhjWBBWiY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l_U8LVumNvY&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LoiCav456eo&mode=related&search=


#3

It’s very difficult to judge what to do when you watch RX vs Roshi, because it really does seem they know how each other plays really well, probably because they do, lol. The tricks that they can pull off on other people tend to not work on each other.

Against Urien, you can basically just walk up to him. Doing fireballs to ‘zone’ you is risky/stupid, and if you stay on the ground until you’re relatively close, AA fireballs aren’t a problem.

Roshi doesn’t low forward xx slash a lot against the better players, because he knows they’ll be fishing for a forward parry [the slash], because the risk/reward ratio is in the other guys favor [unless he’s going to die if he screws up].

S.fierce is a decent poke, but the recovery on it is crap. Also, if you abuse it, it’s easy for a Urien to just s.fierce you back, completely beating it out.

Jump rh from Urien, when done relatively late, is completely safe from low forward attempts. Don’t even try it. If it’s done early, fine. But otherwise, parry the rh and just get a s.strong in.

It seems Yangs best air to air normal is his fierce. It beats out a lot of things clean from a lot of characters, that jump rh would lose out to.

You can abuse low forward xx ex slashes. Even if you’re red parried, Urien has nothing that fast other than a throw to stop you from mashing more slashes out to prevent any c.fierce attempts. Even a throw seems to not work sometimes.

If you’re playing against Uriens that are guessing a lot, then just command throw them. Yang is funny in that you have to condition your opp. not to do something with repeated hits, because you can’t scare them off with a single high damage move/combo [like Yun/Chun/Mak/etc.]. You don’t always have to keep attacking, sitting still after you corner them is fine.

C.fierce isn’t that great of a poke in of itself against Urien. It’s basically a poke you can throw after a couple hits [since the range is so far], to stuff things like heatbutts. Otherwise it’s not worth using against Urien. The damage is low, your hand is vulnerable to getting hit, and the move leaves you there for a while. Meh.

Most Uriens don’t understand how to punish jumpback fierce. Knockdown, jump back fierce if they’re wakeup throw happy. Obviously, a timed low forward completely beats wakeup throws as well, but if your opp is a guesser, then you can’t do it without seriously risking a lot of damage. That’s why you can just get away with jumpback fierce a few times, since most don’t know how to punish it.

If your opp. is a guy that spams out random headbutts, or throws out shit without any thought to it, then just punish it. If you do a slash, then stop and the guy headbutts, a low jab beats the headbutt clean. It’s almost no damage, but doing it over and over will make the guy realize it’s not working. After a while, then you can add other mixups to the post slash game.

Just stay on the ground and react to what he’s doing until you get momentum. If you’re playing footsies, look for a dash, which can only lead to a throw 99% of the time. Tech that, or stuff it with a low forward if you’re fast enough. If he jumps, then react to what he does. If he does a late jump rh, then parry -> s.strong. If he does nothing, perhaps you should try to tech a throw. Sometimes you can close forward him if you time it right, to stop the throw.

Also learn how to parry/red parry c.short/s.strong xx tackle xx aegis. It’s not hard, and once you get the parry on that, they usually burn a bar and get thrown anyways.


#4

Good topic. One of the few people I play against here around VT has mean Urien and I can’t seem to consistently win against him. I’ve uploaded a couple of ranbat matches of Pierre vs. KO.

[media=youtube]LoiCav456eo[/media]
[media=youtube]80VwwGBXbgc[/media] (KO ditches Yun after the first match)

KO’s probably not the best example for this match-up since he’s as jump-happy as they come. One thing he does do well is punish footsies and whiffed throws with ex slashes. I see that he also likes to use close s.mk quite a bit with the sj. cancel rh and then do his mind games upon landing - usually a command grab.

I like this point here. It sucks if you’re doing good pressure and all he does is wait and block, and then you get parried and/or thrown into the corner and have to deal with an Aegis. Sometimes, you’re better off easing up on the attacks and see if your opponent will make a mistake.

Usually I like to try to do a lot of throws, even if it’s the pummel throw; just trying to fit them in between slashes or ticks. Then, I try to see if I can draw out a throw-whiff to punish. This probably sounds stupid, but I get a lot of fun out of doing palm-strike/palm-strike fakes every now and then. Like doing s.fierce or c.mk x palm fake then walk up throw or whatever you like. Probably not advisable, but I like be a little creative.