The game is fairly new, and Yoshimitsu is indeed a character that isn’t played very often, which means that there must be a LOT of tech in this character, let alone this game.
About forward + MK, another thing I didn’t mention is that the opponent needs to be crouching for the counter hit to do maximum hitstun.
Hitting a standing opponent with f.mk will not allow Yoshimitsu to go into combos from it.
Poison breath,SlapUSilly, and Stone Fists unsafe on block for all strengths.
Im unsure about Windmill, but seems punishable.
Poison Breath is safe on block when it’s done at max range. Do a max range cr.mp and buffer poison breath. Most characters won’t be able to punish it except maybe with a quick super so watch out if they have 2 bars. The reason why they can’t punish is because the pushback puts them outside of sweep range.
I just discovered some new techs that will make your jaw drop. I’ll see if I can post a video about them later.
After your double shoryu combo (Shoryu -> lk lk mk > shoryu) you can back dash -> Windmill. To reset them rather than going for a tag out combo.
It catches forward rollers/quick get up. If they get up normally, they might just get hit by the suction part of the move, not sure if you combo afterwards since it’s hard to replicate.
Great thing to do on their wake up, stuffs Dp mashers so they have to block. If they do block, you can just tag out for free pressure. Well, the point is to tag out for free pressure/combo. I find doing this better than doing a tag combo after his shoryus for less juggle heavy characters.
I find that starting a match with raw LK Bad Breath over and over can be a great opener. It’s really fast, builds meter quickly, nullifies fireballs, trades with most jump ins at the worst, and is fairly safe on block. I’ve been using it for mind games right off the bat. For example, say it’s round two and I have two bars, I can throw out one bad breath dash forward and set up for the Super anti-air, baiting their jump in. If the opponent hesitates, just keep building meter just like Yun in SSF4 AE. You can also mix and match with regular or EX Windmill as your opponent tries to figure out a way to get in.
To me, it seems like Yoshi’s best place to be is right at the edge of cr.MP range. Also, consider using his neutral stance sword as a ruler. It really helps me judge spacing. I look for the positioning of the tip of his sword when trying to set up a cross-up.
Finally, backdash neutral jump j.HP seems to be a pretty good roll punish as even on block it kinda stuffs anything they might try to pull, keeping you on the offensive.
Going to share or not so disgusting after all?
The tech I was talking about isn’t as reliable as I originally thought and other people have already catched on to it. I saw someone mention it in the other thread. It was about using Windmill vs zoners to create a weird stun state that allows a full meterless combo. But the thing is you have to do the windmill just when they start throwing their fireball otherwise it doesn’t put them in slow motion hitstun. So you can’t react to fireballs with windmill you have to anticipate them and throw it out there. But it doesn’t work consistently enough to base your whole zoning game around it. There are like 4-5 different outcomes of a windmill vs fireball. Half of them favor Yoshimitsu one way or another. But then there’s also the possibility they will just block instead of throwing a fireball which will make you vulnerable to full combo unless you have a bar to tag cancel. So it’s high risk/high reward if you have no meter and low risk/high reward if you have 1 bar.
I discovered a lot of other things. Miainly setups after knockdown and some use for Flea. I’m working on a big video right now that will show everything in detail.
Cool, man. I’m glad we’ve got some people testing out stuff. I just love it when people don’t what to do / are afraid to close in from full screen because I’m charging windmill. Yoshi is just too hilarious. I think Capcom did a decent job making him troll-able and tricky, he just needs a couple tweaks on his recovery frames to be solid imo.
Also, I want to post about neutral jump j.HP again. I’ve been messing around with the max distance, and it can be deceptive. If you graze them with the tip of this move, you can still combo into a standing MK into SRK -and- still follow up with lk, lk, mk, SRK. I haven’t tried cr.MP or the cr.mp SRK followup yet. If you connect this once, you might try standing a bit back and whiff the neutral jump then go for overhead.
I’m going to list what yoshis best tools are IMO, and also some uses for moves that haven’t really been explored yet. None of this is set in stone so feel free to argue or give better ideas. Some of this is straight from the Brady guide but I’ll try to explain further and give more options. If there are spelling errors it is my iPads fault.
Close standing medium punch:
This is yoshis best move IMO. Use it to confirm any and every jump in, blocked or otherwise. It is cancelable, +3 on block, and most importantly you can Link light attacks after it, which means during block strings it is a frame trap. Using close mp after jump ins will give you tons of options and if it hits will put in early damage for extended combos. Linking a cr lk after will give you a low mixup, and after doing that you can use an overhead instead next time. Chaining from a st lp just inside of max range will bring you close enough for a close mp instead of the far mp, and is safer than chaining into stand mk. After a blocked deep close mp, link a cr lp, cr mp, cr hp chain to put you at a good distance for an ambiguous cross up and also pushes you away at a range that is hard to punish.
Overhead into follow ups:
The overhead string is interesting. The overhead comes out in 20 frames so use it when your opponent has been conditioned to block or attack low. It will cause a slipping animation if it counter hits and you can do a full combo on reaction. On block, ending the string with the punch follow up (mp) leaves you with the best frame advantage at +2, but if you see the opponent blocking the spinning punches low do the second over head (f + mk) and that’s +2 on block also. You can backdash out of the punch follow up for the 8 frames of invulnerability or do the backhandspring follow up which is hard to punish because of the range. If the opponent tries to punish the backhandspring and fails, tack on mp/hp for a reversal standing hp that launches the opponent, which you can follow up with an hp srk, possibly a cross arts or super in the corner but I haven’t tried either of those yet.
If the opponent is jumping from medium distance, and you know they’ll land in front of you, you can do the first roundhouse for a decent anti air. Work on the timing. It doesn’t always guarantee all three hits, so I’d just use the first one, but I haven’t played around with it much or seen what it trades with. The hotbox seems to be in his upper thigh, and not so much his foot. Triple roundhouse hits high and goes over a lot of character heads if they are crouching. If you land the third hit, you can follow up with an hp srk, or a cross arts mid screen. IIRC in the corner you can super or pick up with a light attack for a slightly longer combo. Mid screen they just fly too far away.
Gehosen is good for anti air, especially EX because of it’s invulnerability. Gehosen travels different distances depending on the strength of the punched used. During combos, mp or hp should be used. Ex should be used exclusively for anti air, as it can be followed up by a hp srk. Normal srks are his go to for damage during combos after confirmed jump in hits.
Windmill is great for tags, 3/4 screen punishes and building meter. If you have almost a full meter, feel free to windmill, even if it gets blocked you can tag in safely after a few hits. Buffer windmill off of crouching mediums. Windmill can catch the startup of fireballs for easy punish, however, if the fireball gets released its going to hit yoshi. I wouldn’t recommend relying on this tactic.
Ex windmill is great for ending corner combos for bigger damage than you would get with an srk. I believe it also pulls the opponent in faster so if you are going to punish a fireball, be close enough so that the opponent gets sucked in past their fireball and into the animation. I believe when level up your game did the yoshi demo they showed if you tried to punish fireball from too far away, you’d do the animation, but the fireball would stay in place, hitting yoshi after the animation, so if you’re going to do it, do it close.
Lk poison breath comes out in 16 frames, is the only normal version that combos, and negates fireballs. Use it to negate fireballs and buffer it off of crouching mediums. If your opponent blocks poison breath, they are usually in a good spot for you to jump in with a deep cross up. Hk poison breath crumples but comes out the slowest at 26 frames. All versions are -11 on block, but if you are buffering them you are at a difficult range to punish.
Ex breath is good for confirmed hits into chains like lk, mk xx ex breath, putting the opponent in a stun state to follow up with whatever. There are some good combo options in the combo thread.
Slap u silly:
SUS can be used for juggles, but if you don’t use ex the animation will stop early if you try to tag in, dropping the opponent. Use SUS on hit confirms if you want to stay close to the opponent. You will be at 0 advantage on hit, and throws come out in 7 frames, so use the mixup wisely. Neutral jumping with j hp after is likely a good option.
Ex SUS has armor for the first 14 frames of the animation, so they can catch jump ins, pokes, etc. use it when you are close and expect a single hitting attack that you don’t want to reverse with ex srk for tag related reasons. You can control the forward motion of ex SUS, so push through fireballs and then hold back while hitting to end in the safest spot (still super close), or keep holding forward to push your opponent more towards the corner. Again jumping neutral hp after is probably a good option, or grab mixup. Ex SUS will continue the hits til the end without mashing so it’s good for switch cancels if you have the meter.
Use SUS only after confirmed hits! It puts you too close on block and is at -8 which means anyone can throw you after for free. The best option Even after hitting is to BLOCK. However, if you have the upper hand and have been mixing the opponent up, do a neutral jump hp or throw.
Similar to SUS, except this attack hits LOW. Which means if you have an opponent that’s blocking high, you can do something like buffer blocked jabs or crouching mediums into stone fists for a low mixup. It is -2 on Block (edit: –2 on hit -10 on block) so you can use it as an alternative to lk poison breath if you want to be a little closer to the opponent or push them closer to the corner. As far as I’ve tested you can’t control normal stone fists forward movement. But it does end usually with your opponent farther away form you than if you had used SUS. I dunno. It is a low that comes out barely slower than his cr hk, but has better reach obviously. If you’ve been teleporting backwards out of blocked hits, the starting animation for stone fists and teleports look pretty similar (yoshi sits down), so if the opponent is conditioned to walk forwards after you assuming you’re teleporting again, they’ll walk straight into the low hitting stone fist.
Ex Stone fists travels way faster when held forwards and just like ex SUS it has armor on the first 14 frames. If you start from beyond full screen and hold forwards you will travel the entire length of the screen and hit the opponent with at least the last hit. If you are holding back during ex stone fists, you are much safer than when doing ex SUS. The end of the animation doesn’t have extended limbs so it is harder to punish, and is -10 on block. On hit or block holding forwards will push the opponent towards the corner faster. Hold forward for the first few hits then hold back to be as safe as possible. Holding back will sometimes cause hits to miss. Play around with the timing, if the opponent is mashing during block you might catch them by holding back. Just like ex SUS the animation continues to the end without mashing so it’s fine for tags, and continues hitting low so when your other character comes in use their overhead for an unblockable! (edit: apparently there is no such thing as unblockables during a switch cancel, my bad).
You have four options: full back of the screen ( back srk + 3k), about two character lengths back (back srk + 3p), in front of the opponent (srk + 3k), behind the opponent ( srk + 3p).
I can’t really say much but to use them accordingly. The teleport has a 50 frame total, one frame slower than dhalsims. Frames 1-29 are full body invul, which means the end of the animation is punishable, but you can teleport through mashed uppercuts and shit. If you expect an uppercut or jabs after one of yoshis more unsafe moves, just teleport back! You can teleport behind fireballs, but do it on the startup frames of the fireball, if the fireball is out, you are going to eat a dp or chain combo when you recover behind the opponent. Teleport out of blocked strings when you feel unsafe. Go all the way back and start up a windmill to scare the opponent. If you charge an ex windmill and dash cancel for the auto counter hit properties, the properties will stay with you as you teleport.
Super is great as an ender for combos that keep the opponent grounded or finish juggle combos in the corner. It’s been shown in videos that super also picks up opponents that have been ground bounced, so if you do a j. Hk and the opponent doesn’t quick recover, you can super. You can also use it after switch canceling after your other character does a move that ends in a ground bounce (seen in videos in the other threads). Super is full body invul from frames 1-6 of its startup which lasts 6 frames. Because super is the full charged counterpart of windmill, you can use it in the same way to suck in blocking opponents and tag in your other character safely. Can be cancelled from linked or chained lights and mediums.
Cross arts can combo off of linked or chained lights and mediums. It works mid screen or corner during juggles and is a great way to do tons of damage that is unrecoverable. It has full body invulnerability frames 1-10, and it starts up in 8. You can land it after the last hit of triple roundhouse which looks awesome.
I feel yoshis normals are very under appreciated at the moment. Be conscious that his sword does not have a hurtbox, and you should be using things like cr mp and cr hp at their max ranges. The guide also says standing and crouching lp do not have extended hurtboxes. Jumping mk and hp we all know are amazing and sometimes completely ambiguous. The range of a jumping mp is crazy, neutral jump mp for a great air to air, because it is a sword attack the hurtbox is not as extended as its hit box. His cr lk has shitty range, but is best used after a blocked jump in or close mp. Buffer cr mp into specials from max range. Standing roundhouse is alright outside of a chain because of the way yoshi retreats, but is still punishable. Use his sweep during a chain to get the knockdown for a setup (I don’t have any but I’m sure there’s a few people working on them).
Shenanigans! Use flea full screen to troll fireball characters (except sagat). You can use the poison breath for negating single hit fireballs or duck under them. If the opponent hits flea of you super jump flea onto the top of their head, you can combo into headbutt slide. Headbutt slide hits low and causes a stun state that you can follow up with a full combo. If you are close to the opponent during flea, and normal jump over them and crouch flea all the way, you are close enough that when you release you will hit the opponent; from here you can either jump forward into them for a second hit and resetting that exact same situation, or confirm the hit into sliding headbutt. When ducking, yoshi cannot be hit with high attacks, I believe this includes all jumping attacks, though something like juris jumping hp might hit, I dunno. During flea you cannot be thrown. If the opponent hits the sword and you don’t confirm into headbutt, you need to dash or jump in order for flea to be able to hit again.
Uhhh… I think that’s it for now. Combos in combo thread.
[LEFT]Yoshi is a character that relies on tagging him out to another character that can deal damage. Since his Windmill makes them stand, you can go into anything you want (Bob loop, kazuya infinite, xiao yu infiinte, other stuff not yet discovered) Aside from EX Srk you shouldn’t be wasting meter on anything else. Although meter is never a problem in this game, you’re best saving it for the anchor character you’re tagging in.[/LEFT]
Unfortunately, a character that relies the most on spacing lacks the mobility and ground normals to effectively space his windmill anti airs. I normally abuse my teleport against characters that lack the moves to push me. (I.e option selects)
Note that jumping MP is his furthest reaching air normal, it’s best used as an air to air when outside of J.HP range.
Rufus is his worst matchup btw.
Hmm, why would you say that? This intrigues me.
Yoshimitsu has always had trouble with fat blonde characters with little to no character development since tekken 6. Rufus, being the hipster bob clone who’s only unique character trait is yelling ken masters, something they jumped the shark with this game, is no different. Capcom should stop making two dimensional joke characters that have no place in the Street Fighter canon. Note that Rufus’s motivation to be fat is the same as Bob. Nothing about Rufus is an original thought, even his ending is a ripoff of Bob’s ending in tekken 6. Though Bob has a better character development than Rufus, proving that the original is always better
To respond to all of Capcom’s hastily mounted campaigns would take up too much room and time. I would like to address the most slaphappy ones, though. First off, if you look soberly and carefully at the evidence all around you, you will decidedly find that Capcom has inadvertently provided us with an instructive example that I find useful in illustrating certain ideas. By committing acts of banditry and insurgency, Capcom makes it clear that I plan to subject its statements to the rigorous scrutiny they warrant. Are you with me—or against me? Whatever you decide, no reasonable person would deny that Capcom is doing all it can to ensure that its kith and kin get a free pass from the establishment. Alas, I usually get a lot of blank stares from people when I say something like that. What I mean is that Capcom seems to assume that everyone who scrambles aboard the Capcom bandwagon is guaranteed a smooth ride. This is an assumption of the worst kind because its Ponzi schemes are an icon for the deterioration of the city, for its slow slide into crime, malaise, and filth.
Plus, his J.HK ruins yoshi’s air to air options, and yoshi has no real way to stop his dive kick from close range without meter. His standing jab might be a contender, but it not being spammable makes it unreliable.
We should have a match up thread so I text dump my findings.
I don’t know where you get your numbers but Overhead follow up is NOT +2 on block. And Stone Fists is NOT -2 on block. Both can be punished by full combos on block.
Whatever frame data you were studying is full of lies. Test it in training mode you will see they are both very unsafe. Ryu can easily cr.mk, st.hk, launcher punish.
Backhand spring is a gimmick. Even on hit I was able to punish it. They just need to walk forward or dash forward and do a special move, or just throw a projectile and Yoshimitsu won’t be able to block on time.
Those are the hit frames. -10 on block for punch follow up and -14 for the second overhead. Stone fists -2 on hit and -10 on block. My fault.
And yes, the back handspring is a gimmick. I didn’t mean to suggest the use of it over ending at the punch follow up, just trying to explain the possible use for each move. I don’t mind you pointing out how punishable it is though.
lol, it’s alright. I should’ve guessed you just made a typo.
Good thing we can hit confirm SlapUSilly and Stone Fists with jabs unlike Windmill.
Should be -2 on hit and -10 on block according to the guide.
Yup, already corrected that in a follow up post, should I edit the original to avoid further confusion?
Anyways watching a snootch combo video in the combo section gave me some ideas for the back handspring.
Let’s say you use the overhead off of a switch cancel (the opponent is blocking low or whatever), it hits and you juggle with the mp SUS follow up. You do the backflip, it’s safe because the enemy is falling from the juggle. I’m assuming it’s possible to set up the hp ender to the string by doing that. It’s probably more practical to just stop at the backflip but whatever. I’m assuming this is what the backflip is for, to put you in a better position after using the over head > mp follow up for juggles.
Some aerial attacks hit, yeah, but many don’t, as you’ve said. Shoto j.mk and j.fk seem to completely whiff, I can’t get them to hit low enough to strike Yoshi at all. ALL of Hugo’s jumping attacks whiff vs Yoshi in this state (including Hugo’s bodysplash, both face-on and as a deep cross-up). This means you can use the pop-up from returning to neutral as an AA attack if spaced/timed correctly against particular characters. Hugo’s UOH from 3S also completely whiffs.
This isn’t true. Both normal grabs and command grabs get Yoshi as normal (even while ducking). I haven’t had a grab whiff once unless it was out of range. If you’ve DEFINITELY had a throw whiff right through your Flea, perhaps that is something else that needs investigating.
An interesting thing to mention is the state of the sword’s blade when in neutral Flea. Some low pokes get automatically counterhit by just touching the blade (shoto cr.mk and cr.fk), whereas others seem to whiff entirely (shoto cr.lk). But it is worth noting that once the blade has delivered a counterhit, it becomes empty - all subsequent counterhittable low attacks simply whiff through the space as if the blade isn’t there. To regain the counterhit property, Yoshi must perform an action while in Flea: duck, dash, jump, superjump, Poison Mist, or even just turn-around from being crossed-up by the opponent.
Edit: just noticed the above paragraph is actually mentioned in the Bradygames guide, though it only lists ducking and jumping as being able to reset the blade.
I’ve been having fun swapping xx Gehosen combo enders for xx charge Windmill instead. You can just about get an EX Windmill charged if they quickstand and press a button, otherwise just dash cancel with a free counterhit property.
Oops, I’m dumb =/