Yoshimitsu ver 2013 (a beautiful sight, dat change log is!)

[S]Well, everyone else seems to consider Yoshimitsu one of the worst characters in the game. And a majority of players think he is bottom tier or low-mid tier at best. So it’s fair to assume he will likely get buffed in some way. :rolleyes:[/S]

[S]The question is, what would you guys want for Yoshimitsu?[/S]


Change log is up. These are the official changes for Yoshimitsu in ver 2013:

[]Triple Roundhouse Combo – No longer comes out with df+HK
]Walk Speed – Changed to be same as Cody
[]MP – Damage 60->80
]MK – Reduced frames by 4 (+4F on hit/0 on block)
[]HP – Counter hit causes knock back - Damage 90->120
]HK – Throw invincible from startup - Hit properties changed to be same as 3rd hit of Triple Roundhouse Combo
[]Far MP – Startup 12F->9F - Active attack frames changed from 2->3 - Reduced frames by 2 (+1F on hit/-4F on block) - Hit box enlarged
]cr. LP – Reduced frames by 2 (+6F on hit/+2F on block)
[]cr. MP – Move property changed from high to low - Hit box enlarged
]cr. HP – Counter hit causes float knockdown - Push back on block when used in boost combo reduced - Hit box enlarged - Damage 90->120
[]cr. HK – Can be canceled
]j. HK – Midair hit and counter hit causes untechable knockdown
[]L. Gehosen – Frames 1~10 are invincible against air attacks - Added screen freeze - Damage 110->80 - Startup 9F->7F
]M. Gehosen – Frames 1~4 are completely invincible - Added screen freeze
[]Poison Wind Bronze Fist – Special command input timing faster by 3F - Special command cancel timing faster by 4F - Increased backflip speed - Reduced movement distance
]Poison Wind Gold Fist – Invincible against air attacks
[]Slap U Silly – Hurtbox appears faster
]Stone Fists – Hurtbox appears faster
[]Suicide – Damage 120->250 - Self Damage 60->200 - L ver. is throw invincible, M ver. is hit invincible, H ver. is projecile invincible
]EX Suicide – Damage 200->300 - Self Damage 90->250
[]L. Poison Breath – Frames on hit changed to +2F
]M. Poison Breath – Frames on hit changed to +3F - Hit box reduced
[]L. Flea to Poison Breath – Frames on hit changed to +2F
]M. Flea to Poison Breath – Frames on hit changed to +3F
[]Triple Roundhouse Combo – Hit box enlarged - If first hit connects it causes forced standing on opponent
Special move meter gain:
]Poison Breath: On hit 40->30
[]Suicide: On hit 40->60
]Slap U Silly: whiff 10->15
[]Stone Fists: whiff 10->15/On hit each hit 20->each hit 10
]Sword Poke Windmill: whiff 15->0/On hit each hit 20->each hit 15
I will take a good look at them and comment later… :slight_smile:

EDIT: [URL=http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/yoshimitsu-ver-2013-a-beautiful-sight-dat-change-log-is/146269#post-7632663]My impressions on these changes

St.lk shound be a low, untechable j.hk, better hitbox on st.hk, suicide should do a lot more damage.

Would making all of his sword normals cancelable be too much to ask? the only other thing that I would do is take away the illusion on the hitboxes on his sword normals and just make the whole sword the hitbox. With these it will be alot easier to determine the range of our hitboxes and we will have more opportunities to connect windmill and other special moves.

Isn’t the whole idea of Yoshimitsu is that he’s supposed to be an “oddball” character? So I think he should receive more command normals and stances, to make him more unpredictable to fight against.

He doesn’t need buffs he just needs to be played like Yoshi. In both Tekken and SC Yoshi is a risk reward character. Thats why he does damage to himself, i have seen very few people even remotely utilizing his move set. However when someone who does understand Yoshis play style is using him he becomes a terror. He has a lot of great tag in opportunities which make whoever you have him set with very able to get in. The game is still young there is a lot to discover.

I feel he’d be fine if he just had 3 frame light attacks. At least crouching Lk and cr lp.

And if I’m hoping for stuff I’d want a Helicopter stance where punch does a slash that exits the stance and a command grab similar to his cross arts animation. Maybe only works on standing.

and a jumping knee from his tekken incarnations. Kinda like kings but with more forward momentum and not so high of a juggle.

I personally think Yoshimitsu has a lot of hitbox problems. j.hp, cr.mp, cr.hp and st.hk to name the main ones. I’m hoping Capcom will improve them to give Yoshimitsu’s pokes a little more priority (I mean he has a sword after all goddammit, people should respect Yoshi’s poking range but they currently don’t).

For the rest, I think more reliable anti-airs would be a big help. Right now we need to spend meter on EX Gehosen and alpha counters for defense and if we don’t want to spend meter we have to rely on weird air to air normals that sometimes literally go through the enemy. But I think if they just improved cr.hp and LP Gehosen it would be good enough. Right now all non-ex versions of Gehosen have 9 start up frames but I think the Light version should have 5-6 start up and maybe some invincibility. This way it would also be a decent wake up reversal in addition of being a somewhat reliable anti-air. But maybe I’m asking for too much here. Just a better cr.hp would be nice.

And like Mugetsu mentioned, a 3 frame cr.lp and/or 3 frame cr.lk would be more than welcomed but I somehow doubt they will give us that. Although I also like the idea of making st.lk hit low just like King’s st.lk.

Finally, I would really like HK Poison Breath to be active for a little longer. Something that often happens to me is I try to zone a little with PBs and then the opponent jumps at me and goes through my mist into pressure. The poison mist is still visible on the screen but the active frame are gone. This annoys me because I feel my Poison Breath should have hit my opponent out of the air. So I feel Poison Breaths are very ineffective at controlling space at the moment but having longer active frames would help Yoshimitsu’s zoning game a bit. Right now all versions of Poison Breaths are active for 24 frames but I would change MK version to 28-30 active frames and HK/EX version to 32-35 active frames.

Other than that, I think Yoshimitsu is fine. And I don’t care much for his techable ground bounce since I never use j.hk anyway…

j.mp is the only sword attack that seems to have good priority right now. That poke really feels like you’re attacking with a sword and not extending your limbs.

If they just give cr.hp similar priority and make cr.mp have more reach I’ll be happy.

Now imagine if cr.mp would hit low. :slight_smile: Yoshimitsu would actually have something to make the opponent crouch.

Yeah his cr Lk is short and you can’t link out of it ( maybe on counter hit), and I never see anyone use sweep because it’s slow to recover. Meanwhile ryu can cancel his sweeps ::face palm::

Yoshi IMO is by design a defensive character/punisher, similar to Dhalsim which is why his sword pokes lack combo potential but have nice range.
That said Capcom probably pre-nerfed him by making his moves slow and fairly unsafe similar to Dhalsim.
Imagine Dhalsim with faster normals and better recovery, how broken would he be?
I think all Yoshi really needs is fairly improved speed on his normals and safer moves overall.

Sim has a 3 frame st lk that is also rapid-fire cancellable into other lights.

I want that shit.

Sim also has vastly superior zoning, reliable anti-airs, air teleports, a slide normal and a good backdash. Yoshi’s pokes may have decent range but his best ones (s.hp, c.hp and s.hk) can’t be canceled into special moves and don’t create a lot of pushback on block. So they aren’t really effective at keeping people out. And considering his slow walkspeed and terrible backdash, it’s hard to play footsies effectively.


Would be cool if his taunt recovered grey health.

I just want windmill to hit wavedash. I mean seriously? What the hell happened there?

Also heihachi can counter windmill from max distance…

better frame data and maybe hitbox data on a few normals (cr HP, cr HK, cl st MP can stay), he has some very terrible normals. a better walkspeed or backdash for the love of god. make the followup overhead after the target chain off overhead not punishable on hit. make one special (or a strength of a special) not punishable on block.

all that would be nice

Yea i often think whats the point of all these overhead follow ups if there all punishable. I also find it funny that every time i get away with doing the backflip after the overhead into the sword follow up Everybody jumps in and punishes like its a know thing. Would like to use more of his tools but its hard to find uses for them.

Yeah honestly what is the point of that second overhead? Doesnt crumple on crouch counterhit or anything…hits them and then slowly recovers like he’s exhausted or something…

It’d be nice to be able to do the sus followup to the overhead on whiff like all the other tekken characters can do with their whiffed chains…laaame

I think it’d be sick if you could spin during suicide and get multiple mids while taking ~5 damage from yourself wtih each spin till he falls.


We need this