"You wanna get choked?!" Movelist/Combo Thread (Updated: AE changes)



So, you all keep saying that HK.karakusa takes 10 frames, but it doesn’t. It only takes 9.

Start-up frames is a bit of a misnomer. It should really be called frames to start. In frame data, the start-up and active overlap.
It’s the reason why 1-frame links are called 1-frame links and not 0-frame links. an opponent who you are +5 on can be hit with a 5f startup attack because of the fact that the first active frame is on the fifth frame, not the sixth frame.
For example:

HK.karakusa: 9 2 47

So, what this really means is that karakusa’s first active frame won’t appear till frame 9, and then will last for 2 frames. So really, the startup + active frame real time is only 10 frames total. For the purpose of the st.lk setup situations you guys are talking about, HK.karakusa can hit as early as frame 9 and as late as frame 10.

If this was all known, sorry. It just seems like, from reading, that this point was missed by a few.


@yillin: Thanks for clearing that up. I definitely was thinking about it wrong.



st.lk: startup 5, active 3, recover of 8, 0 on block, +1 on hit.

That means that, give that you connect with the first active frame, there’s a total of 11 frames of blockstun. (3 active + 8 recovery) and 12 frames of hitstun ( 3+8+1).

HK karakusa comes out in 9 frames, but is ACTIVE on frames 9 and 10. Meaning that even if the 9th frame is the last in the window of blockstun, the 10th frame (when hk kara is still active) will still grab them.

Canceling st.lk (blocked) with rh kara on st.lk’s 1st active frame: 11 frames blockstun - 10 frames active = 1, no dice. 12 frames hitstun - 10 frames active = 2, no dice.

on 2nd active frame (subtract 1 from hitstun/blockstun before startup of HK kara): 10 frames blockstun - 10 frames active = 0, CONNECTS. 11 frame hitstun - 10 frame active = 1, no dice.

On 3rd active frame (subtract 2): 9 frames blockstun - 10 frames hitstun = -1, CONNECTS. 10 frame hitstun - 10 frame active = 0, CONNECTS.

I was curious about this, cause screwing around with it for the 10 minutes I had the game last night, I could swear I found a timing where rh kara would snag them even if they got hit by st.lk, and if my numbers are right, it’s there. CH st.lk would add another frame to the hitstun, so that wouldn’t work, but I’d really like to see if it would snag them were they to hold up. If I remember correctly, you’re actually throwable on the first pre-jump frame or so (which is why you can’t jump out of Gief’s ultra).


No, you can’t jump out of zangief’s ultra 1 because it has a startup of 1+0. The freeze frame is the 1. If you aren’t already jumping by the freeze frame, you can’t jump in 0 frames. That is the reason why you can’t jump out of it if you see it start up already.


GUYS on cammy on corner do Focus attack fukiage jump hp then axekick it will cross up. im unsure if its universal.


Oh, right, okay. The super flash is it’s only startup, I gotcha.


Gotta admit, I don’t train or study this game beyond just playing randomly online. At times, I’ll go into training and try to rectify a problem. So yeah, I’m probably late with this one. But whatever.

So today I made a little bit of progress. I was a fan of mpfuk-exfuk-extsu away from corners in SSFIV, but in AE I was finding that exfuk actually knocked my opponent in the opposite direction I was facing way more consistently. I’d end up jumping opposite of my opponent and not having a target to extsu finish. Now that this is well understood, the tendency for AE will instead be mpfuk-exfuk-exhay. In corners, I’ll still finish with extsu.


I actually, now, find it fairly easy to do it the traditional d,db,b,uf~K way. The trick is the pause, you have to hit it just right to keep the d,db,b inputs in the buffer, but also meet the minimum height requirement. If you’re having trouble try pianoing Hk~Mk.


I decided to figure out how far both karakaras go today. whiff kara goes a good bit further. I’ll describe their distance using the squares in training stage.

f+lk karakara: 5 little squares
st.lk karakara: 6.5 squares at the maximum that I could make it travel.

EDIT: I don’t know why, but f+lk karakusa seems way easier to do now. It feels like there’s 1 extra frame of leeway to do the cancel.


not sure since this hasnt been posted but i can confirm that EX hayate > LP fukiage > EX axe kick in corner works on most if not all of the cast now. Playing online since release and have yet to meet a char i cant do it on, havnt actually tried it in training mode on everyone though.


Good find, but yeah this has been know. It is because of the new fukiage hitbox and the faster startup. Thanks for pointing it out though :slight_smile:


Actually, it’s just because of the hitbox improvement, lp Fukiage is not faster. Still 8 frame startup.


This whiffs :confused:


Well it is character specific (based on the wakup frames presented in vryu’s wakup thread) so which character did you have it whiff on. We still don’t have proper frame for the wake up of the cast, so I was going off of the numbers from Super… Either way, though, i’m starting to think that Makoto’s dash is 15f not 16f… that would mess up many of my setups…


Now that AE is out, I’ll ask again: Is lvl.2 FA -> lvl.2 FA etc. an infinite? Because I couldn’t get it to work, not even close.


I think this was answered before, and yes it is a 1 frame infinite that does crap damage (around 260 damage). Don’t remember where it was answered though. Long story short? Go for full combo (around 400 damage) + knockdown and work on that Oki…


for hayate feint during combos, do you just do the qcf+1 punch and 1 kick at the same time, or is there some other trick?


QCF + lk + lp, and then hold the buttons for a split second. The strength of the buttons is irrelevant (although mp + mk will give you a focus cancel if you have two bars, so don’t do that), I just find it easier to do this.


Whiffs for sure on juri and ryu. I’m pretty sure they have “normal” wake up time. Anyone else should be waking up even later.


If you have a stick, I recommend hayate canceling with mp+lk. I just my middle finger and thumb to do it. Then my middle finger is ready for a mp+lp plink for attempting a fierce feint strong. Just feels really comfortable to my hand if I never have to take a finger away from mp.