Ben Reed’s Input
[details=Spoiler] - Anti-air versus late jump-in HP (one of Bison’s primary jump-ins): LK upkicks, surprisingly, seems much more consistent when used late (Bison starts descending and timed just as he starts his fierce) than the heavier versions. Used too late as Bison descends, MK and HK upkicks can trade with Bison j. HP in Bison’s favor. LK upkicks seem to be much more consistent if done late; it’s hard to get them to trade unless you fire them way too early.
Crouching MP can also beat Bison’s jump-in HP. Easiest spacing is if you are basically right under Bison’s ass as he activates fierce, so being a little close to Bison helps you here. Just be careful not to get crossed up by the fierce.
If you’re kinda close to Bison when he jumps, close HP can be a really good anti-air because it hits very high over Yun’s head. Good for walk-under or walk-up. Close MK can trade with Bison j. MK, but you get the knockdown anyway and the trade is very even, so it’s worth it. You have a lot of anti-air options in this fight, obviously, because Bison jumps so high and for so long. Lots of time to decide what you can and can’t do.
Bison corner pressure: If you are cornered and Bison is right in your face (attempting a meaty or after a dash-up) and does (blocked) c. MP xx LK scissors or c. MK xx LK scissors on their own, he is still in range to repeat that same string once again. Both c. MP and c. MK will make contact. These are two of Bison’s primary counter-hit tools to fish for knockdowns, so be respectful when Bison has you cornered, unless he’s gotten predictable enough to DP your way out. Getting impatient in the corner is what Bison counts on to deal damage in this matchup, because the only thing Bison can get from Yun down-backing it are throws (140 damage, wheeeeee) and a few rounds of puny LK scissors chip. You can afford to be patient in this matchup, because once you’re back on offense (basically by getting a divekick hit or blocked; it is PROHIBITIVELY hard to throw or c. LK punish low-and-close divekick), you’re in control.
In case you didn’t already learn this rule with another character in vanilla or Super, once you block three LK scissors in the corner, Bison is pushed out of range and can only tag whiffed limbs. This is your opportunity to escape, as long as you’re mindful of how Bison might try to cut off your escape. Jumping is probably riskier than walking out, because while Bison can poke you on the ground, the corner is one of the few places where Bison can control anti-air spacing versus Yun.
This should be fairly obvious, but don’t DP to get out of Bison ground pressure. Bison has a zillion ways to make it whiff because of how high the initial hitboxes spawn. c. MK in particular will duck the shit out of all versions even when done right in Yun’s face (for example after a blocked LK scissors). That said, Bison tends to have poor and/or very difficult punishes for whiffed HK upkicks because it goes over his head and screws up his charge. Auto-correct U1 (Nightmare Booster) and EX Psycho Crusher will work, but depending on the distance, it can be hard to detect when Yun changes sides to properly auto-correct, and the failure mode for U1 is typically a teleport, which obviously is a free lunch for Yun, even factoring in whiffed DP recovery. Still, a bad habit that you shouldn’t be forming. Stick to blocking if Bison is attacking from the ground.
More on low MK divekick on the inside: We’ve all seen Marn clown Andre with this. Basically, once Yun is in that sweet spot where he can cross Bison up with lowest-height MK divekick, Bison has to literally guess his way out, because his reactive options become SEVERELY limited. Bison can do his vertical jumping HK and beat low MK divekick relatively late on reaction, but otherwise he lacks the combination of speed and geometry to stop low MK divekick in his face. Done pre-emptively, Bison close HP and stand HK can stop divekick spam, but reactively (waiting to SEE Yun leave the ground), they will lose. Done pre-emptively, EX Psycho Crusher will whiff under Yun. Bison escapes – briefly – but does not win. Done reactively, Yun lands from low MK divekick in time to block EX Crusher. At this height, it is also UNREALISTICALLY difficult for Bison to block divekick on an early enough frame that he can 3-frame punish (throw or c. LK) the landing recovery, even if he stand blocks. At that height, Bison basically HAS to block MK divekick on the first possible active frame (VERY hard to space), or Yun will not be disadvantaged enough to throw or c. LK.
Obviously, you’re not going to cross Bison up with low MK divekick unless he crouches, which to me seems like a bad idea against Yun if Bison is smart. Bison’s charge-down-up EX reversals are useless against Yun, and even with the risk of baiting, Bison doesn’t want to lose access to EX Psycho Crusher and EX Knee Press reversals – any escape from Yun pressure/mixup is a precious new lease on life.
Bearing that in mind, obviously Bison is going to try and stand block your divekicks to maximize your frame disadvantage, and then immediately go to crouch block to avoid your low options. Obviously, what you want to do here is get one step ahead of Bison’s blocking patterns, and try to condition him to block divekicks low, where you cross him up and he loses his charge (assuming you don’t outright HIT him and get a combo), and blunder into lows when he tries to stand up for your divekicks. Having conditioned him to focus on blocking, you start observing whether he’s going to try and break loose with a pre-emptive anti-air/counter-hit move like close HP/stand HK or an EX reversal/teleport, or whether he’s going to sit still so that you can throw him and make him antsy.
The only psychological variable at work here is confidence in your mixup ability so that you don’t feel afraid of Bison getting loose, and are confident in your ability to confuse the hell out of him with a seemingly unstoppable attack. It’s not hard to scare the shit out of Bison in this matchup, as long as you can consistently finish your plate when you get a combo starter and punish baited reversals as hard as you can (eat your free lunch, you don’t get many against a safe character like Bison). Don’t be afraid. Get in that Kim Jong Il-looking ass and DESTROY the once-great Bison. [/details]
Jumping in on him isn’t smart. He can and will AA you everytime. Dive Kick if you’re right on him or try to bait out something. His normals will Stuff your dive kicks, Cr.mp, B+MP, St.HP, F+HP all have huge hitboxes. Unless you’re right on him, since none of his normals will come out in time.
Just stay back and build meter. I’d advise not to do bad ex Lunge punches since a reactionary Ultra or srk will stuff it.
Just use shoulder to get past his fireballs, and don’t let up on him at all. Oni does not have a clear way out of pressure. Always stay on his ass. Always.
If Oni does knock you down. Be wary of Lk slash and HK slash.HK slash should be -8 on block but it crosses up. So always be ready to block a cross up against him on your wakeup.
If he goes to ground pound. A late DP kick should stuff it. Don’t do an early one since you will whiff, and put him in a position he likes.
Oni’s F+HP is considered a projectile try to shoulder it on reaction
Forgot to say ex slash is said to be -10 if he doesnt crossup on block, and -12 if he does cross up on block. [/details]
[details=Spoiler] For me, I consider this match up to be a 50-50, maybe a bit more in Yun’s favor. It’s easy to react with a HP shoulder when she throws fireballs, and closing the space with your dive kicks should not be that much of a difficulty. One thing to keep note is that she has strange hitbox properties like Blanka, where when you try and do a certain BnB, it will whiff when they’re crouching. So these are the following BnBs I suggest for consistency:
- cr.lp/cr.lk, st.lp, cr.mp, st.mp xx MK/HK Dragon Kick, depending on whether she is standing or crouching, respectively.
- cr.lp/cr.lk, st.lp, cr.mp, cr.mk xx MP Lunge Punch
- cr.mp, cr.mp, st.mp xx MK/HK Dragon Kick (similar for standing and crouching scenario)
- cr.mp, cr.mp, cr.mk xx MP Lunge Punch
Most of you already know that she is a frame trapping powerhouse, but now its time for her to feel what she’s been dishing out to the cast back in Super. You have many frame trap setups in your arsenal - these are some that I like to use in general, and not only for Rose:
- Walk up, st.lk ticks, with the occasional st.lk xx Palm/Feint for mixup
- After getting in, jab to cst.mp (note that I said close standing MP; this move puts you at +2 on block and it’s a 2-3 frame trap depending on what jab you use. It’s an amazing frame trap because on counter-hit, you can link it to a far st.mp, cr.mk, or st.lk. I’m pretty sure you can imagine all the possibilities from here)
- st.lp, st.lk, st.mp TC xx LP shoulder after a jab or two
- cr.mp, walk up to delayed cr.mp
- Overhead on counter-hit can link to jab (something good to keep in mind)
There are many more traps that I could list, but there are just too many to write down.
Once you’re in, you should have this match set easy, but don’t get too comfortable because she can still frame trap you, regardless; don’t go pushing buttons without thinking.
On knockdown, she has the following options, and I’ll list the punish right after:
Backdash --> OS LP Lunge punch
Wake-up U2 --> Meaty cr.mp
EX Soul Spiral --> Block, and punish accordingly
EX Soul Throw --> This is where you’re getting too dive kick happy, so just do an early dive kick on their wake up to bait it. [/details]
[details=Spoiler] I’ve found it necessary to fight Sagat at the edge of his st hk. The perfect place being were you can crouch under it while holding down back without it making contact and where his st mk whiffs also. At this range you can punish most of his pokes.
The only pokes that he has that beat your st mk are cr hp/mp but you can punish these with your st mp or cr mk into lp.
Your st mk is a great tool in this match up. You can use it to easily punish his whiffs without the recovery of your st hk, hp, or mp. You can also use it to punish the start up of spammed tigers. At this range you can also nj hk dk low tiger shots. If you are doing all of this well expect tiger knees to reset the spacing especially ex tiger knees. You can punish theses with with lk dp/U1. You really want to need to push him to the corner. Once there he is at your mercy. Generally anywhere outside of that range I mentioned or the corner he’s at the advantage. [/details]
[details=Spoiler] I played a few Sakuras over the weekend and I have got to say this matchup is really free, possibly 6-4 Yun.
As Sakura, you’re going to have one hell of a time trying to keep Yun out. I dunno if it was just because of online lag, or maybe my Sakura opponents weren’t the best, but they could not keep me out whatsoever.
Footsies-wise, Sakura will be looking to do cr.MK xx shouo, and st.HK, as usual, and possibly st.LP or far.st.MP or far.st.MK to keep dive kick spam in check. But I found that Sakura’s normals pale in comparison to Yun’s. cr.MK is good to stuff Yun’s far.st.MP. But he can return the favor with his own cr.MK xx Lunge, or st.LK xx Lunge, or easier yet, hitting Sakura’s cr.MK with dive kick. Many Sakuras will likely make lots of use of st.HK in this match, being her farthest reaching normal, beats pokes or trades in Sakura’s favor, and has a good chance of beating out dive kicks as well. But Yun can very easily keep this in check by neutral jumping outside of its range, and whiff punishing on reaction with dive kick. Or maybe Yun might have poor reactions and you block the dive kick, but he still gets in anyways because your antiair won’t come out fast enough. And then of course, Yun will be spamming a lot of far.st.MP as his go-to poke (especially as a whiff punisher), and possibly f+HP which I believe has more range than any of Sakura’s normals. These two threats, combined with the dive kick threat, make Yun quite a bit advantaged in the midrange footsies war.
Of course, Yun can also opt to not play footsies at all, and just backdash/palm all day, a luxury which Sakura does not have.
Also notice I didn’t even consider Sakura’s fireball. Yun already has enough options to reaction punish fireballs, with or without meter, so if you do decide to chuck some fireball, I sure hope you know what you’re doing.
Going back to antiairs, Sakura does not appear to have a single universal solution to dive kicks, especially dive kick pressure. She can crouch tech with cr.MP or cr.HP, but then Yun can still simply do nj.MK to mess up your timing (and get hit), or worse Yun can crossup dive kick and cr.HP will whiff completely.
Offensive/defensive wise, I’d say it’s still Yun favored. He can easily maintain pressure like a champ with dive kicks, and Sakura is insanely easy to safe jump, with her reversal being like 12f startup or whatever. While Sakura can dish out more damage after hitconfirms, this requires tight 1f links (ie: tatsu loops) that most Yun players will never need. Yun is not as free on wakeup due to having a dp, and Yun is also not as free to offensive pressure due to having a dp.
mod edit (preppy): you can’t nest SPOILERS. edited to fix that.