I’m not going to debate whether Gief is “good” or “bad” in terms of tier lists as I barely play the game anymore, but your statement that he’s “been the way he’s been forever” isn’t true in SFV, and that’s why I don’t like it.
In every other main SF game, throws were faster than jabs, which meant that once you got close, the threat of SPD was always there, when you saw an opportunity for it, you just did it. Opponents seemed to play much more afraid of Gief when he was close. In this game, you almost can’t (and if they ever fix the input lag you’ll never) get a raw SPD without earning frame advantage first. What kills me about this is that whereas in old games your opponent never really knew when the throw was coming, in this one a cr lp or mp, or a st mp is pretty much a tip off to your opponent that its time to make a decision. Instead of me seeing an opportunity and going for it, its more like “I’ve got frame advantage, what’s your guess, Mr. Opponent?”
I’ve always played a defensive/reactionary style of Gief, and that worked well for me in both ST and 4, but in SFV you can’t do that, nobody’s defense is great and you can’t react. I have to get frame advantage and guess like crazy to win (and, admittedly, I WILL win if I guess right, but doesn’t that just turn this into rock, paper, scissors with pretty graphics?)
I could also add that most of the cast’s crush counters are way scarier (and safer) than SPD is too, but I think that’s already been covered.
Honestly this is the most rational explanation of why somebody doesn’t like the game. What you said is all true and I actually don’t mind it that’s why I play. He used to be a footsie Monster and now he is a 50/50 monster. The choices are adapt or quit playing. I respect you making one of the two choices.
Kinda of like the injustice system I tried it and didn’t like it but I still respect the people that do.
I think fighting Gief is horrifying in this game. Back when I mained Cammy, if I made one mistake I was fucking done.
Maybe Gief is too reliant on making hard reads but with the way defense works in this game I’d say it’s in his favor allot.
I don’t know… I don’t play Gief but I’ve fought good Giefs and the lock down is terrifying. Even at the highest levels you see players playing out of their minds because they know the moment they get got buy 1 SPD it’s “ooooooh fuck not this episode again!!!”
Alright I’ll dip out now. I’m not used to being around this much muscle spirit.
I used the rock, paper, scissors analogy as well and people don’t like that comparison. I guess it’s hard for them to admit that SFV is much more reliant on luck than previous games.
People say, “Gief may have a hard time getting in, but once he’s up close he’s the scariest character in the game” According to whom? His basic BnB low short, low jab, Lariat and headbutt, short, Lariat don’t do huge damage compared to many other characters and have no follow-up. Same with any SPD except fierce and EX. Compare that to Ibuki, Laura, Mika or Balrog who’ll drain half a lifebar and most likely stun you once you’re in the blender.
He’s strong up close, yes, but not the destroyer people make him out to be.
That’s why I say he is mid tier. He does the damage that most of the cast does, no better no worse. The problem isn’t with him it’s with the top 4. Those characters are flat out busted, and the crazy part is they are not as busted as other capcom games. I usually am one to say buff low tier leave the top tier alone but fact is guile, rog, Ibuki, urien need more nerfs to their comeback potential.
on a different note i am experimenting with Tundra for wakeup on Cammy, Ken, Alex and Akuma.
I am not home to check but can someone see if cr mp on wakeup when you are +2 canceled into Tundra would be an option select for those characters vreversals. because it is not special cancelable and cr mp has 12 recovery frames would that work? can someone check it out? and if it does work can you negitive edge it to make it full proof?
trying to see if i can make this move not useless.
In my mind they are close, they just dont stand out as much as the top 4. Karin and Necalli are just good nothing really too busted. Laura gets a positive elbow off of every damn knockdown which wouldn’t be bad except the fact that her walkspeed kicks ass and she is always in your face.
I agree with @scratchback about Necalli he is top it’s just that he looks somewhat “bland” to everyone (not just Gief players) that he gets overlooked. I think that is a problem that everyone looks “down” on him when he is very very good.
I’d be ok with the top tier characters if Gief had proper defensive options, i.e. Lariat that’s active on the first frame and throw invulnerable on the first frame only, and either 1100 HP or S1 grey life regen (preferably the latter). It would allow for a more reactionary playing style.
I realize that’s a lot to ask for and those are substantial buffs, so to balance it out they could take away the great Tundra Storm and the game-changing aerial headbutt…
…but seriously, to balance it out they could scale back duration of his V-trigger as it was in S1.