I have seen Zangief and Raiden played well in two grooves-N and K, which is better and why?
If you can Just Defend well, K. If you can’t, N.
Seriously, though, as stupid as it may sound, Roll into SPD is a very core part of Zangief’s game. Not abusable, but vital to proper mix-ups with ground games and jumping games. Think of it as the third thing to do as an alternative to the ground game and jump game.
The biggest advantage of K-Groove, though, is that any Just Defend ground-vs-ground against a single attack almost guarantees an SPD. Earlier recovery, no pushback, + zero frame grab = Free SPD. The only problem is that outside of the three jump heights and a standard ground game, your only way to get in is Just Defending from the air. But that’s the thing: you’d better be good at JD’ing in the air, or just forget it. However, 'Gief builds up meter WAAAAY faster in K-Groove, and considering that Zangief has a ton of hit points, he gets a lot of Meters compared to other characters. Since in ALL other Grooves, Zangief does not come by meter very often, this kinda gives Zangief a benefit. If he has a meter, and you go for a tick guessing game (like Low Jab into 720 or Low Jab, wait 'til they Jump and do Anti-air Super), you’ll never feel like you’ve wasted a meter if you guess wrong. This can potentially make Zangief really powerful if you find the chance to use this trick, but without Rolls, it’s much harder to get in.
N-Groove, on the other hand, has Roll and Counter Movement, which coupled with a zero frame grab (or a Level 3 powered up and ready to go beforehand) can be potentially frightening. Plus, being able to stamp and do a Level 3 Anti-air Super (from prediction) can be useful, since in Grooves like C-Groove, people know not to jump at you when you have a Level 3. When you aren’t Stamped, people may jump more (frankly, most characters have little reason to jump at Zangief) which, if you predict, you can Stamp and then Super before they can hit you.
Really, either works out. It all really depends on how well you can Just Defend… in the air, more importantly than the ground.
The best Zangief in CvS2 I have ever seen was Ino’s C-Groove Gief. Airblock (goodbye Blanka Pimp Slap), dash into SPD/FAB, and above all ROLL CANCELS. Anti-Air RC RBG is a major tool for Japanese players (Arcadia stated that it was one of the main things that made any character’s ranking change IIRC). RC Lariats do wonders against team CBS especially if they are in a dash/no-low-jump groove. Once you understand that you can use Lariats as pokes, it changes Gief’s ranking completely. RC Lariat and walk back. Without run, it’s hard for those top tier whores to catch up (ESPECIALLY a Kick Lariat). Against Sagat (and Blanka?) you can walk forward for some chip and GC damage as well.
I personally use Zangief in A-Groove on point to build up meter for Bison. He does wonders against Choi’s C-Cammy (around 10-1 right now?)
wow… Chesnsor and Gunter… almost feel not worthy to post … well here goes… I know RC Lariats are cool and all… but I love K-Gief… as long as you can JD like crazy then he is nigh unstoppable (OK I only get to play people who suck, I know… but even the skilled scrubs around here just cant do squat)… Although I do have a question… how the hell do you stop him? I mean I’ve been using him for about 5 months now… and I have yet to see my R1 K-Gief fall (when I didn’t sacrifice him so I could use Yama or Joe ) I mean… jump in, JD (or not), punish… as they’re getting up… run in and a. cr.jab/short RBG, or b. know that theyre expecting it and just stop outta range, or crossup/RBG , or JD whatever their counter is and punish… Hell I just can’t think of a good way to make him go down… and let’s not even get into the whole raged damage increase thing (ouchie!)… please respond oh mighty gurus and thanks…
don’t hate me… I’m old-school…
u peoples are sleeping on s groove gief!!!:evil: Did some ocv’ing with him muhahahaha!!!
The key to stopping Zangief is to let him try to hit you first. Know your ranges and you can kill him for free almost anytime. Gief’s best poke, c.fierce, is so good because it stays out so long letting you catch people off guard. However, if ppl train themselves to see it, they can react and catch it with their own move (e.g. free Bison slide every single time). All of your RBGs would be DP fodder for anyone with average reflexes. The thing with K-Groove that makes it hard for Gief (although not by much) is that you have to rely on your JDs to work. Once people realize that if they don’t try to hit you they won’t get JD’d, they’ll learn to hit you only when you CAN’T Just Defend - like when you’re in recovery from a move. Zoning out Gief and countering his pokes takes patience, but it’s not that hard. That’s why I think that RCs are better for him… he can RC Lariat and walk back… if they stick out something, they’re knocked down… if not, you’re too far away. No reason for RC Gief to try to advance because he’s too hard to catch if he turtles. At the VERY least he’ll build up a full meter.
Where was this OCV’ing done, who were the opponents, and how high was their highest placing in any tournament?:rolleyes:
RC running bear grab owns me… :bluu:
it was once, because s groove geif was unexpected and they got caught in supers too much. didnt happened after that lol… but s groove gief can be a pain in the butt to fight if u use him right. if u perfect the timing from dodge to spd its stupidily good because there is 0 frame recovery from dodge and the spd is instant so if ur oppenent is sittining in ur face trying to hit u, u get a free grab. forcing the oppenent to stay away from u so u get to build meter hehhehe… plus he gets run and low jump fp’s just like k groove geif.
S-groove Gief is fun… too bad S groove is so weak…
and Gunter: OK so how ‘bout if you’re ahead/ even on life?? Can’t Gief just turtle like crazy, or empty jump in (for JD’ing) to SPD? I know I just need to play someone good, but you don’t know how hard that is to do around here Guess one of these days I’m gonna’ have to move to So Cal if I really want to get good.
I wouldn’t use s groove gief seriously though. s groove is so for straight up hardcore rushdown. Thats why u don’t have alot of super access;)
Eddie your S-groove Zangief is a bitch to fight.:lame: Anti-air dodge into SPD is so damn annoying:mad: . He OCV’ed a guy named Carlos who turtle’s. I think he got 17th or 13th at the TS3.
Damn you Eddie :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
uuuummm… u guys ever even play a good K-Gief???
Anti Air dodge??? wadda’ bout JD SPD??? it eats damn near anything… (Hell go ahead and take the Damn near off that lats statement)
Gunter and Chensor… what doesn’t the JD SPD/FAB eat???
Best counter to K-Gief is yama. He can slash gief all over the place and still be out of his spd range. Gief can jd all he wants but a good yama will never let him in.
OK, s-groove zangief is easily my best character, so i’ll try a little here…
IMO, Zangief is MUCH better with run than dash, but ONLY if you can perfect the run into spd/DS without jumping. Due to the nice fat range of the jab spd/all strength double suplexes, this tactic will serve you well. Also, after every double suplex, you can run up and RBG right before they get up. Then next time, you can run a little out of their throw range, charge, and then dodge when they do a wake-up, charge until they come down from their fierce dp or what have you, and SPD em.
Now, I beleive that Zangief has the one of the easiest times of all characters charging his meter in S-Groove. Either you charge-bait, and if they jump-in dodge > spd/DS/FAB, or they’ll chicken out, as any player worth his salt will know not to get too close to gief, and you’ll have a full meter with a 15% power increase.
His dodge attacks are…kinda bunk, due to the fact that pretty much all of giefs normals rely on range and not priority. His dodge kick, standing mk, is kinda meaty, but more often than not doing dodge attacks with gief will lead to large combos. The only time that I’ve found that the punch one is even halfway useful is comboed-not-comboed (LOL) into the RBG. Just like jump-in splash into ducking jabs into RBG, you WILL be catching people with this from time to time.
Zangief can utilize short jump more so than most characters. You can do it empty, to use it like a pseudo-dash into spd, or you can do short jump fierce/roundhouse from FAR range.
His lv.1 supers are decent enough as well. Pretty much any time you’d be using the SPD, you can switch it up into the FAB in desperation. As for the air throw, i’ve found one use for it and one use only: if you duck a hurricane kick, and do the motion fast enough that you don’t stand up into it.
His splash beats Bison’s scissor kick, which I suppose is kinda useful against A-Bison scrubs who are all about randomly tossed out scissor kicks.
As gunter said, a gief with RCs is downright scary, and one of the main reasons why I’m practicing N-Gief as well as S. RCd lariats are as easy as RCd taunts once you get the just of it. For obvious poor execution reasons, I can’t rc the RBG, although that sounds fucking badass.