# Zangief Match-Ups Thread

#25

Have not faced a Vega yet. Lots of R. Mika and Rashid today. One Bison and shotos. But I’ve won 7 in a row so far. Not too shabby for a noob like myself. The headbutt is so useful guys. Use it.

#26

Frame data follows these basic rules.

On block
0 is not a number. it is zero. Think of it as “neutral”.
Meaning, if Zangeifs crouching HK is 0 frame of advantage on block, that means the move does create any advantage or disadvantage

Negative numbers delay your ability to do an action based on the number after the “-” sign.
If Zangeifs crouching HK is -5 on block, you cannot make a “neutral action” for 5 additional frames.

Positive numbers delay your opponents ability to make an action based on the number.
If Zangeifs crouching HK is +5 on block, your opponent cannot make a “neutral action” for 5 additional frames.

Think of a neutral action like you are standing there not doing anything, and you press a button.

This can be applied to punishes also.

If Zangeifs crouching HK is -5 on block, your opponent can punish that move with a move with a startup equal to or less than that number.

I personally think of hit and block advantage as currency.

So lets say I have a move that is +10 on hit. I’ll use the Zangeif HK example again.

Zangeifs crouching HK connects on my opponent for +10 on hit.
I now have 10 dollars to spend on another attack. (I can use another move that is 10 frames or less and it will connect. )

Because my move is +10 on hit, I choose to use (spend) that advantage by using a Cr.LP which is +4 on hit and have 3 frames of startup…

The next move you use, you use the currency of THAT move for your spenditure, The advantage from the previous attack no longer exists.

Because my move is +4 on hit, I choose to use (spend) that advantage on another cr.lp which is +4 on hit and have 3 frames of startup.

This is where pushback comes in. All moves in fighting games push you back. This is so you can’t just go a crouching LP and a specific chain of moves for an infinite amount of time.

It’s a bit more complicated than that, however, I consider that the general jist. Feel free to ask questions, because this may be a little over complicated.

#27

How can I beat Cammy’s s.mk with gief? This move can beat all my poking tools like s.mp, s.lk or cr.lp.

#28

Joe. A bit, yes. But I do understand it somewhat, surprisingly. Thank you though. I guess I’ll try and start learning a new thing.

I’ve always been a casual fighter. Not caring about frame data or anything at all. Not very fun when you get your a\$\$ handed to you more often than you want.

I’ll have some game play up in a few I did last night. Feel free to call me scrub or whatever. Ha. Thought I might get suggestions and critiques of things I do and do not do.

#29

I’ve been pretty successfull with cr. lp, cr.mp and fHp. Still very tough to deal with tho.

#30

Crush counter with standing hard kick from distance. Beats it clean

#31

It’s impossible learning anything matchup-wise when every single player I’m paired with in casual matches is a horrendous freaking scrub. I knew it would be bad but good lord lol. People literally mashing every single special move with no purpose or reason. Mashing lights when I’m half screen away, nowhere near them. Really?

#32

Fang tips:

When he does the poison grounded attack walk forward and block it will go away.
When he does vskill don’t try to avoid it this is your chance to dash forward and keep backing him to the corner.
Armored moves are useless so don’t use them. Main buttons in neutral are c.jap, st. Mp, s. Roundhouse, st. Mk.

Now once you get him to the corner stand at sweep range and pressure with cr jab mainly. If he jumps back cr jab recovers fast enough to cr hp on reaction. If you continue to cr jab eventually they will try to do the slide teleport. If you are able to end the round with an spd do it on reaction. If you can’t end the round do a normal throw to put them back in the corner. As long as you stay at max jab spd range he can’t get out

#33

Q: How do I learn matchups when I am fighting against scrubs!? They just do shit!

A: Then don’t do shit. Most of the time a lot of issues can be solved by just doing less and not trying to force anything. If you they push buttons on their wake don’t push buttons when you knock them down. It’s ok to let people get up. You can learn a lot from a player by just letting them get off the ground. It also gives them a false sense of comfort. Players don’t like the feeing of being powerless. No one does. Use that irrational fear to their advantage.

#34

I tend to just record stuff with characters I want to learn to play against. Trying to learn Zangief online is a monumental waste of time as most people are not very good.

#35

Anybody have tips for nash? I seem to get stomped by people well below me and it’s frustrating.

#36

V-skill his backfist and medium scythe into l.spd. After eating few of those be ready for his dash > grab.
Keep an eye on his v-trigger gauge. His trigger loses to meaties. His v-reversal is even more annoying, but afaik you can meatie into spd to snatch him out of it (feels more like a hard read if anything).
Super is his only inv. move.
When he is throwing slow boom and is walking behind it you can try lariat to bypass the projectile and hit him outside of whatever normal he was going to do (again, risky)
Pay very close attention to his super bar. When you jump over boom and he is doing super, you can do regular air spd to bypass it.
When he vtriggers on top of you, you can do lariat (usually trades), not sure if you can st lp or dhp…
And learn to headbutt those booms.

#37

ok honestly, is there anything to do vs ryu? You simply cant catch him cause giefs walk speed is too slow. Then he can just jump to other side and runs away even more. I mean, in ST gief could dash over lows, and had green hand, and his lariat worked. I cant even stop incoming jump kicks with the lariat because it starts up so late.

#38

Lariat that dive and play def. Dont chase him. Also, pray.

#39

Versus a good ryu, this match takes patience. Vskill/headbutt through fireballs with occasional jumps when safe to gain ground. Be wary of dash ins. St lp on reaction can shut that down. Also I find f. Hp to be useful for that too.

If he jumps in, cr. Hp for when you have time. St lp if you don’t have much time. If it looks too late, just block. It’s better than eating a full damage combo and losing your ground. If your reactions are really good air spd will scare him out of ever jumping again, which is good for business.

Keep pushing him to corner, when you have him at the corner hold your ground at about sweeps distance and pressure him with st. Mk./ cr. Mk./st. Lp. Punish his whiffs, and throw down a l. Spd when he starts turtling. If he tries to jump back then rh him on the way down. If forward, cr. Hp./st. Lp/air spd will put him back in the corner.

#40

Vega Tips

Standing LP any dive, lariat works but is inconsistent. air SPD if you have time though.
From Neutral dont use a lot of S. HP as his slide kills it. His standing MP beats most buttons you have but Parry Destroys him from sweep distance. Walk forward pressuring with Cr. Jab from distance and Parry on reaction at sweep range, it beats all his options.
Dont forget his jab is 3 frames so some of your frame traps arent as good on him.
once you knock him down meaty headbutt everytime, it kills his wakeup options. This is a very even match and will most likely go to full time against a good vega.

Ryu Tips
Cr Jab from Distance beats every button he has except CC. If you can get him to start throwing this out in neutral though parry and get a free J. SPD.
Dont headbutt fireballs!!! Parry as many as you can, you need v trigger for this match because once you have that you take away his best tool fireballs.
Headbutt on his wakeup is your best option but he can uppercut you, if you read that though free 300-500 damage.
In my opinion this matchup is in Gief’s Favor.

#41

Also, don’t jump at Vega when he has VT. He can punish with a VT combo for free.

#42

I’ll expand on that. Since we have a parry there is no reason to jump in almost any matchup.

#43

Ok i have played alot of this matchup lately so here are some cammy tips
At distance
Her standing mk gets beat by cr LP
Her cr HP beats your cr lP
Her cr HP loses to your st MK
dont use St HP they can drill that on reaction.
Any blocked Holigan is free spd.
Headbutt on wakeup or block. dont cross up as she can uppercut it all.
CC all blocked DPs.
CC Vskill on reaction.

This is a very slow match just like SF4 but really fun it is all footsies.

#44

Karin Tips

6MK to beat her cmk
good Karin’s cr.mp and then her overhead. Crouching beats all followups.
Parry her 236k,p
St Jab beats every jump in.

Seems 5/5