Zangief Ticks and blocked BnB vs Reversal DP

zangief

#1

I feel like a fool for not knowing about this now, but I just tested with a friend and it seems impossible to tick into SPD from a blockstring if the other guy is reversal DPing after every hit you do. This might sound like old news to most of you, but I actually thought the SPD would grab before the Dragon Punch came out.

I also thought that if I finished my blocked B’n’B on someone who is mashing DP’s would prevent them from getting their reversal out. This still works on people that you know are holding up to not get thrown though, because the crouching short will catch them.

It does not make ticking obsolete versus characters with DP’s, but it will change the way I see some match-ups for sure.


#2

ex spd will beat reversal dragon punch but not regular what i like to do is bait a dp and lariat it.


#3

That is some retarded advice. Why on earth would EX-SPD would work better than SPD in this situation? EX-SPD doesn’t have invincibility and come off slower than regular SPD’s…


#4

I’m actually running into a similar problem against Ryu. It’s almost like G3 all over again. I’m trying for tick SPD but rather than blocking my strings they’re mashing out Shoryus during blockstun. It’s definitely a risk. Should you risk pausing and baiting that Shoryu so you can punish with an SPD, knowing that they can simply jump away to safety (or more accurately, neutral j.HK)? It’s probably safe to just wait for the first mashed Shoryu and punish, and after that they’ll probably be too scared to do it again, making it safe to tick SPD in the future.


#5

Actually, EX SPD is invulnerable during the entire grabbing portion of the move.

Sure, it’s two frames slower and costs an EX, but it’s invincible and causes longer knockdowns.

Only certain character and strength DP’s are throwable though. Ryu’s jab DP is one of them .


#6

EX-SPD :

  • 4 frames startup
  • 2 frames active after that
  • Supposedly invincible during the active frames

LP Shoryuken :

  • 3 frames startup
  • Frames 1-2 frames invincible
  • Frames 3-4 immune to throws
  • Once the move is active, he’s no longer considered on the ground.

So, I have no idea where you would need to hit the EX-SPD, ticking or not.


#7

Isn’t there a frame discrepency taken into account?

Example…

-The 1 frame discrepancy you see between Startup+Active+Recovery and Total is because when it says a move has 4 frames startup, it really has 3 frames startup and hits on frame 4. It was written this way so you don’t have to do any math to figure out what frame a move first hits on. Wouldn’t that mean the Zangiefs EX SPD is a has 2-3 active frames or something?

Just a minor detail I thought needed to be examined for this question, simple because I cannot remember if I have beaten jap DP or not, but I think I have :smiley:

idk, just a thought XD


#8

No, that would mean ultra/super/atomic suplex have 0 frame start up instead of 1. How can a move have 0 frame start up?


#9

It means the moment you press the button the move activates (no startup). So the moment the move is inputted the screen flashes and if you didn’t attempt to counter hit (jump it) BEFORE it activates it hits you.

So no startup means 0 frame move.


#10

Oh…

KK :smiley:

So how does it beat the LP DP then?

Haxx

Why’d my rep drop???


#11

I’m not really suggesting using EX SPD to counter Mash DP’s.

I’m just saying EX SPD has a better shot of hitting that 1-2 frame window where it’s throwable.

I’ve thrown it before, however. The ranges are really weird though, b/c he can’t have made contact with you, but you need to be in range for SPD. I think it’s most likely to happen on a empty jump in/short jump with a jab SPD.

Anywhoo, there are several counters to mash DP’s

  1. BLOCK.

  2. use c.LP chains (can’t be interrupted)

  3. Use Splash instead of knees (more hit/block stun)

  4. Watch for 2 meters (for FADC)

Btw, on any uppercut character, Blocked uppercut->FADC is free ultra/Super for Zangief if you reversal timing it.

Also, use strings like, Splash, c.jab, c.jab, BLOCK for like 3 frames (for DP), then grab/lariat/low short/whatever.

Then react to what they do.