Zangief's Data

zangief

#1

Vitality and Stun

Vitality and Stun are in points, Dash, Back Dash and Jump are in frames, apparently. You can assume that Ryu and Ken are the medians for vitality and stun, since they are both at 1000. That means that Gief has the highest Vitality and Stun in the game, and Gouki has the least vitality and stun, so it works out well. For the Jump stats, I believe the first number is the initial execution of the jump, while the second number is for how many frames you are in the air.



CHAR      VITALITY     STUN
**Zangief    1200        1200**
Rufus      1150        950
Honda      1100        1100
Sagat      1100        1100
Abel       1100        1050
Boxer      1100        1000 
Blanka     1050        950 
Ryu        1000        1000
Ken        1000        1000
Dictator   1000        950
Guile      1000        900
Claw       1000        900
Chun       900         1050 
Fuerte     900         1000
Viper      900         950
Dhalsim    900         900
Akuma      850         850


Dash Frames and Jumping Frames



NAME      TWD DASH  BACK DASH  PRE-JUMP  IN AIR
Zangief    26        26         6         37


Frame Data


#2

Here’s a list of things you can punish with spd, which has a 2-frame startup. I’m not putting any far attacks, which you don’t have the range to punish, but I am putting crouching attacks and close specials like point-blank fireballs because you can punish them if you’re close enough. I’m also not listing specials, supers, and ultras where it’s obvious that you can punish them, but I am listing them where it’s not obvious (like with Ken’s hurricane kicks or Sim’s super). Anyway:

Ryu: close standing strong, close standing fierce, close standing roundhouse, crouching fierce, crouching roundhouse, short hurricane, fireball

Ken: close standing strong, close standing fierce, close standing roundhouse, crouching fierce, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, overhead kicks, fireball (on hit as well), all hurricane kicks

Chun: close standing strong, close standing fierce, close standing forward, close standing roundhouse, crouching strong, crouching roundhouse, back+forward kick launcher and follow-up, down-forward+short, fireball, roundhouse and ex spinning bird

Honda: overhead stomp, roundhouse and ex buttslam

Blanka: close standing fierce, close standing roundhouse, crouching strong, crouching fierce (on hit), crouching roundhouse

Zangief: close standing fierce, close standing forward, close standing roundhouse, crouching strong, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, down-toward+roundhouse, lariat, all green hands (on hit, except ex)

Guile: close standing strong, close standing forward, close standing roundhouse, crouching fierce, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, overhead, knee bazooka (back/toward+short), sobat kick (back/toward+forward)

Dhalsim: back+strong, down-toward+all punches, all slides, down-back+roundhouse, yoga fire, jab yoga flame, super

Boxer: close standing fierce, close standing forward, crouching fierce, crouching roundhouse, all regular rush punches, all regular rush uppers, all low rushes, all overhead rushes, all regular down-toward kick rushes, all headbutts, all levels of tap except level 1

Claw: close standing roundhouse, crouching strong, crouching fierce (on hit), crouching roundhouse, down-toward+forward, wall dive

Sagat: close standing roundhouse, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, overhead, all low tiger shots, tiger knee that does two hits

Dictator: crouching fierce, crouching roundhouse, all psycho crushers, all scissors except short

Viper: crouching short, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, ex thunder knuckle, regular seismos

Abel: close standing jab, close standing fierce, close standing forward, close standing roundhouse, crouching fierce, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, all changes of direction, all change of direction follow-ups

Fuerte: target combo

Rufus: close standing fierce, close standing roundhouse, crouching forward, crouching roundhouse, toward+forward overhead, toward+fiece, jesus kick, jesus kick overhead follow-up

Akuma: close standing fierce, close standing roundhouse, crouching fierce, crouching roundhouse, toward+strong overhead, all hurricane kicks


#3

now it’s really over now good shit


#4

What’s the point of using his EX SPD? It recovers just a few frames faster but shouldn’t the meter be better spent on EX green hands?


#5

It also makes the opponent spin a little more after you land, meaning you get a bit better positioning after the spd. But Gief already gets good positioning following after a regular spd by doing jab green hand, so yeah, that isn’t necessary. I never use it. Jab spd if I need the range, otherwise fierce spd or even atomic suplex.


#6

How is the range on EX atomix suplex?


#7

Well according to the chart it has the same range as the non EX one.


#8

So regular atomic suplex seems completely worthless since it does less damage and has less range than the HP SPD. Strange, considering it did more damage in other SF games. At least the EX atomic suplex seems worth it if you can pull it off as it’s the strongest non-super/ultra grab in the game (barely more than HP SPD, but how often do you lose a fight by a sliver of health? Might be worth the EX stock it if you can guarantee it’ll connect)


#9

Side switch, they stay down longer.


#10

Ok, so all single-button SPDs let you recover 37 frames before the opponent gets up.

Whiffing a jab banishing flat uses up ( 11 startup + 2 active - 1 overlapping hit frame + 21 recovery ) == 33 frames. So you have +4 after doing SPD ~ whiff jab hand.

Using strong banishing flat wastes ( 13 + 2 - 1 + 22 ) == 36 frames. So you have +1 after doing SPD ~ whiff strong hand.

So why does everyone use jab hand after an SPD? +1 is actually a lot better for zangief than +4, no? I’ve done SPD ~ whiff jab hand ~ SPD and had the 2nd spd whiff over the opponents head ( i guess because they hadn’t fully recovered - it looks like they just duck the throw). With strong, it seems like the timing is done for you . . .


#11

Where did you find that 37 frames number? Edit: I don’t think that’s right, both because it seems like I usually have more than 4 frames after jab green hand and because different characters get up at different times.

Well with jab spd, you get to do a meaty attack like crouching jab if you want, and you can still do meaty spd if you want as well. You get more options, and that’s usually better. The only time I like strong green hand is if I want to do meaty 720, since it’s so easy to buffer the first 360 at the end of the green hand and then do the next 360 just as the opponent wakes up; the timing for that is great for strong green hand, but jab green hand leaves you sitting there too long for the 720 partitioning to work.

Either way, if you have the option of doing spd or atomic suplex, atomic suplex is better because it leaves you right next to the opponent for whatever you want, be it crossup, meaty, focus, or throw (or block, of course).


#12

37 frames is in the notes in the mook, last column. Here’s all of the opponent disadvantages info after throws:

bodyslam 50f
brain buster 32f
(not sure which of those is which neutral throw, only have his frame data page with me atm, not the move pictures)
SPD 37f
EX spd 70f
atomic suplex 51f
flying powerbomb 72f
(same for EX versions)
super 50f
ultra 70f

It also says EX SPD has invincibility on frames 1-5, so I guess there might be some situations where that would be useful.

about the meaty attack, if you have +1, isnt crouching short / SPD a 2-choice guessing game? SPD will hit on their first recovery frame, and crouching short will hit at 2 frames, so will beat any normal attack or throw? Reversal SRK etc will beat it, but that will win in any case, no? I glanced over a section in the mook that seemed to be talking about this 2-choice guess (with the addition of using standing roundhouse to beat backdash attempts). Sorry if this is obvious, I haven’t played any 2d fighters semi-seriously in over 10 years.

Thanks for the tip about atomic suplex > spd if you’re in range, that makes sense.

Edit - about the buffered 720, you cant just do hand & mash to get the 720? In other words you have to do, hand, circle ending in forward, walk forward a little bit, another circle? That seems weird to me, because you can mash 720 on your own wakeup so i’d assume the buffer would be similar during hand.


#13

That still doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe that’s the number of frames it takes for an opponent to begin getting up, and then different characters take a different amount of time to actually complete the getting-up process?

You don’t have to partition the 720 at all, it’s just easier for me to verify if the opponent is still on the ground if I do it that way.

I don’t like doing crouching short as the first part of a meaty because it can’t chain or link into itself on block. Crouching jab can, and that makes it a lot more useful. If you verify that the crouching jab hit the opponent (or if the second crouching jab does), then go into crouching short for the rest of the combo because it’s more damaging. Also, occasionally do crouching jab and then put in a crouching short if you think the opponent is mashing on dragon punch, since the crouching short requires that the opponent keep blocking low, and he can’t do that if he’s inputting dragon punch.


#14

i’d do the suplex to grab a corner to cross up. jab spd is too good to pass up. whiffing spd better than turning into a rgb, at least u can recover to lariat.

spd > glove to get in melee is always a good thing. it intimidates anyone and punishing their recklessness should be the way to go.

i buffer a wakeup 720 with whiffed throw/st.mk
its great if ur opponent is conditioned that you dont always throw on wakeups.

i use sa ALOT. feints and closing distance.

st.mk on block allows jab spd. on hit u wait a little. good fun


#15

how long is a character width? is it a general measurement or is it Giefs width?


#16

“Something Atomic Buster” = Ultimate Atomic Buster
(Arutiimetto - Atomikku - Basutaa)
???

Good shit in here.?Nothing I will try to remember, but for the rest… good shit.


#17

Question about the spd range. I watched a few videos and saw it miss from fairly close range a lot. Does it not have the range of old?


#18

It definitely doesn’t have ST-style range, but it’s also probably the biggest range since ST (well, maybe not bigger than in CFJ, but who cares). It has good range, probably like, 1/5 of the screen? Maybe a little less? It could be a little longer, but it’s fine as is.


#19

Ah, thanks. Just wondered, 'cause I never saw anybody using it much in the vids I watched. Most just did green hand combos.


#20

Well you can just jump out of ticks in this game, so if you have a combo going, it’s better to make sure you get the damage and knockdown of a green hand combo than to try spd. The spd is still a good move, but the fact that you can jump, backdash (which is invincible for 8 frames), or reversal out of it makes it less useful than it was in ST.