Zbattle vs kaillera - technical differences


#1

I tried both yesterday and as a lot of threads suggested, zbattle was nearly flawless while kaillera was nearly unplayable at around 40ms ping.

Can someone explain the differences between how these two work? I’m fairly technical (network admin). The more info the better. :clap:


#2

Zbattle: Direct Connection between the 2 Users.
Kaillera: You connect over a server.


#3

That’s what it looked like. So in other words, the only reason you can’t do this on Mame currently is because someone just hasn’t built it?


#4

Kaillera uses UDP as well, and despite it’s claims to working through routers, it actually has alot of trouble with them (both server side and client side).
Jcasetnl, look up Toqer and Mystiq on the kaillera.com forums and TRAC on Kaillera, they know quite a bit about it I believe.


#5

Hey this may be extremely off topic, but I read your SF History story thing and I would LOVE to play you, I want to see what playing a fool at the next level is like :tup:

my screenname is SnapBack This if you have AIM


#6

Definately! I’ll keep an eye out for you.

So, has anyone tried callus for online play? It has online play built in like zsnes (p2p). I wonder if a zbattle client could be written for it.

It would also be cool if zbattle could maintain a queue of players waiting to challenge you. Like putting quarters across the machine. :slight_smile:


#7

I don’t think its too much to do with the connection, since you can use your own PC as a server and set up a P2P connection on Kailera and still have lag(which is what I do). I think it’s more to do with the software and how frame information is transmitted and with SNES graphics is not much frame information that has to be transmitted. I once setup a connection (albiet it wireless) over my network between two relatively fast pc’s running mame and kailera and you can tell by the animation even when ONE packet may be lost or delayed so I can imagine information traveling over the internet will be worste.


#8

you can sort of do that on kaillera, have 4+ players in one game and swap and take turns, its pretty cool


#9

And lagy :sad: but it can be fun tho


#10

actually Kaillera lag isnt that bad, Lag is bad… But once you get used to it its actually fun. I don’t like playing on ZSNES because it looks so ocky :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

you sure about kaillera running off udp packets? from what i see, its always been tcp. you can pretty much tell from the gameplay that its tcp. i also know people that play on kaillera that are on an isp that doesnt support udp packets…

and yes, kaillera not being direct connect does hinder its performance, but doing a direvt vonnect by making a server, and private, is BARELY any better… kaillera is just ver unpolished network code thats been needing an update for over 3 years thats not gonna happen ever…


#12

kaillera is underrated

lag is always there but on a good server with a ping from 0-50 its actually pretty damn good

now zbattle rocks, its too bad theres about 5 good competitive SNES games


#13

zbattle on one hand is just the zsnes netcode that hasnt been updated in many years as well
zbattle really has no infrastructure to add to the netcode other than the “quarter system” which they set up, a unified place to find players who want to play the game

Kaillera built the whole infrastructure around its netplay, and used the server inbetween clients for error checking or some other dumb reason to balance it out.

Lag is more of a problem for kaillera due to its reliance on servers, which typically suck. Its better to just host your own private servers for 2 players to see a good performance, since the servers nowadays get bogged down. Not to mention the fact that the ping it reports is only refreshed once during connection, and is based on you to the server, and not on you to the person you are playing, which some people confuse for being some sort of accurate guage for lag. Also MAME has a higher system requirement, and if one side is slow, the other side gets bogged down for no apparent reason other than the faster side has to wait for the slow side to catch up… and god do I hate that shit.

and yeah, zbattle doesnt send as much shit, too bad I notice it dropping keyframes like crazy, I can live with the lag in kaillera exchange for no desynching and actually having moves come out.


#14

In “kaillera features” it says “uses UDP for better latency” (also shows up as using UDP ports in the firewall).
But it also says “works through firewalls” (right, “connected, logging in” bug anyone?) and “low to no lag for players with good ping”, while people with 20-40ms have reported laggy games.


#15

The difference between Kaillera and Zsnes netcode is probably like in CS with the cl_lw setting (0 means you see what the server sees, 1 means you see shots as though you were on LAN). I wonder what would happen if someone implemented that sort of instant response front-end for Kaillera netplay … The problem would then be moves not ‘registering’ even though on your end they appeared to come out in time.


#16

I’m curious about Callus now too, anyone try it out to see if the lag is anything like kaillera?


#17

Kaillera works pretty well if you play on Excellent, but you need to find someone with almost exactly the same ping for it to work right.


#18

Just thought I would chime in and give some personal experience on these items.

Back when Xband was released I was playing SSF2 on Sega Genesis and SNES over a 14.4 KBP modem(or maybe it was slower?) and I was able to get virtually lag free games.

If someone can find a way to set up Kailera EXACTLY like Zbattle(UDP, P2P etc) then we can maybe start figuring out what is getting messed up in the process.

I think it’s gotta be something else besides “frame data” because I have played on Zbattle against players from the UK, Mexico, Asia and Holland and all of them were lag free. That is unheard of on Xbox Live and Kailera. Why is Zbattle so good? :looney:


#19

Same here. I play game a lot with a friend who now lives in Austrialia and we have virually lag free games all the time on zbattle. On Kaillera I always have some sort of lag but it’s not like you can’t deal with it.


#20

Zbattle works differently though, because P2P play is hardcoded into the ZSNES emulator.
You’d have to program it into MAME yourself.
The MAME developers hate the idea that kaillera exists at all so I doubt you’re gonna get any support from them there.