Zoning problems

sagat

#1

Hey guys I play Sagat and Seth, but for some reason I am having problems whenever an opponent stands JUST outside the range for my normals (as sagat), but too close for me to throw a fireball. What should I do in this situation? If i throw a FB, they ca jump, if i try to AA or poke them they will punish me. I am a fairly good player imo and when another player finds out that I cannot counter this strategy, they use it indefinitely. Wtf do i do???


#2

Mix it up. If you like fireballs, throw some random jabs out there along with your fireballs to bait them to jump. Don’t forget Tiger knee, kara TU (FADC on block) -> combo or throw. Also nothing says you HAVE to do anything. Be patient, make them come to you if you like to play defensively.


#3

Walk back? Walk forward? Jump back? walk in and out of the range of their normals/specials? throw out a standing lp to bait them into doing something? neutral jump? low step kick? EX tiger knee? hold a focus attack for a few frames to bait something? It’s truly character specific, but you don’t have to do anything. But you have a plethora of options. Just find one that works in that situation.


#4

Another thing to do is hit youtube and watch what other Sagats do in your trouble zones. Two off the top of my head: YouTube - XUpYourGameX’s Channel and YouTube - 0ShinAkuma0’s Channel (search for Sagat matches.)


#5

people don’t react fast enough to jump over fb’s at that range unless that is the ONLY thing they are waiting for…chances are, they are jumping in reaction to see you crouch. I had a friend some time ago who jumped over FBs like he knew it was coming. I realize he was waiting for the crouching animation as his cue to jump because I tapped crouch to fake him out, he jumped and I DPed him.

if you make your fb execution less predictable such as whiffing normals or randomly teabagging the air, it’s bound to throw them off. if they are standing just outside cr hp, i’m sure they wont’ have enough time to confirm it’s a projectile and jump over a high shot let alone an EX.


#6

I will throw some random jabs and a few crouches to try to bait something. If it doesn’t work i will throw out a focus and backdash and try to zone from a bit farther away.


#7

If your having zoning problems look here

Justin.tv - XUpYourGameX - All Night Casuals On PSN (Special Requests) Starts @ 9pm EST

this is my regular zoning


#8

^

Im sorry to burst your bubble, but zoning only works on opponents that respect the game. Im sure you’de beast on randoms no doubt. And your zoning is great. I just find that zoning leads no where unless the player is willing to commit to the game with fundamentals and not random shit.

btw how do you

high kick kara tiger shot?


#9

Lol trust me bro you didn’t burst no bubble your definition of zoning is a bit off zoning does work with randomness zoning always works. You just have to learn to beat the randomness with zoning Like i did.

What to do if your opponent is at that range well I hk tigershot in there face and mix it up by faking. It by doing crouching lp. it usually gets them to jump then I punish them with a scard uppercut I usually have in stock


#10

Ok. From personal experience when i try to play a zoning game with Sagat against random’s has always led to failure. Ive only succeed with Guile. But yes i have a lot to learn about zoning with Sagat’s fireball.


#11

I am guessing your your not faking enough fireballs

try to fake it by using crouch L.P it also buffers your uppercut


#12

This is the same sort of thinking people who say “I get scrubbed out” or “I get randommed out” use–they blame their lack of effectiveness on their opponents failure to play the game the way they envision it should be played. Silly attitude, if you ask me… it’s really hard to get ‘randommed out’ in ssfiv imo, but it’s not hard to lose to a technique you weren’t ready for. In the same vein, you can’t blame an inability to properly zone with Sagat on your opponent’s lack of ‘respect.’ Mosh is right…


#13

I was watching this one last night, my favorite matches were against that Blanka. Your blocking ability is pretty sick.


#14

Actually its easy to get randomed out still. Play against mix up heavy characters. Thats getting randomed out. Use Vega, you get randomed out all the damn time. Try to play footsies against an idiot, randomed out. Apply wake up pressure to a random, DP. And did you not read post 2? I bet you didnt.

btw, this isnt chess, your attitdute will fit the chess mindset just finely.

Actually i fake a bit (use double hk a lot, and cr.lk 1 less frame), its more of a spacing issue with me. Im not afraid to throw a fireball, but the random isnt afraid to jump in at random because no body DP him at that range. But like I said I still got a lot to learn and cr.lp buffers into TU is pretty neat. Ill start using that. Another issue of mine is TK usage for AA. Worked great in Vanilla, not so much in Super.


#15

Use angry scar it gets the uppercut stronger then wait for your opponent to jump I GUARANTEE AFTER THEY SEE THE DAMAGE off the upper THEY WILL NEVER jump again. trust me a stupid player may look like he is jumping at random but they are jumping because there confident in you throwing a fireball when they jump, break their confidence! by showing them NO JUMPING IS ALLOWED

true you really have to read the other player too see their habits to determine how they play and how to counter act against it.

Thanks man lol ya that was fun his blanka was all over the place


#16

i constantly try to TU, but god damn that motion is so difficult for me. I find Vega’s U1 adn Guiles U1 motion so mujch easier. but yeah ive been working on my AA. My zoning got a bit better.


#17

forward, to down, to forward. Where is that hard?


#18

Maybe you’re just too nervous that you aren’t blocking initially when doing a traditional TU. I know a few people who used to always be a slight bit off on their timing for AA commands because they were afraid of getting hit. Just have no fear(as nerdy as that might sound) if you get stuffed, you get stuffed, but it will help you on your timing.

To the OP, I don’t want to be that guy who brags, but I often get messages from randoms saying it was incredibly tough to penetrate(all homo)Sagat.

My main key is to not be a pattern player. You have to keep switching it up, as people mentioned already throw fakes out(lp, lk, crouch and stand buffer)

I back dash a lot too because I like staying on the ground, after a back dash at mid range ALWAYS be ready to throw out a kara TU or another AA.

Learning your Kara timing will be a day and night difference for your zoning. Not saying you don’t this is just a general statement to anyone Sagat player wanting to learn zoning.

And as Moshtaba mentioned, who cares how close you are sometimes, chuck a low shot in their face. That forces them too not stay there, unless they like being chipped out. BUT that will work much better if you do a lot of fakes.

Good luck!


#19

Tigger Slap said it all…
If your opponent get your pattern, you’re screwed.So try not to get one (it’s difficult, usually everyone got one).
There’s a bit of luck of course but it’s mostly a mind game (that’s one of the reason Daigo is such a great player, his mind game is amazing.I’ve spoken to friends who’ve played him, and he rly makes you scared to jump at him when he’s playing a Ryu). If you’re playing it right, your opponent will be very scared to jump at you (afterall Sagat got rly great AA, and could punish a jump from very far with roundhouse/kara TU).

There’s plenty of things to do when your opponent is in the danger zone (depending of the character he’s playing)…Either be patient or do one of the things TigerSlap or shadrende already said (and there’s of course many more options).See what’s work on your opponent and just do it untill it stopped working…then do some other things, cuz he’ll get your patern and most people won’t be fooled more than twice in a game by the same trick.

Just DON’T BE PREDICTABLE!

@pedoviejo I don’t know if that’s a troll because I find it one of the easiest thing to do, almost as easy as a TS motion(afterall playing Sagat for a while rly trains you to do it easily) but if you find the DPM hard, works on it in training mode, do some more games…Or if you can’t overcame that simple motion just play another character, because if you keep thinking it’s a difficult motion that can’t be thrown easily at anytime, you’ll never be a good Sagat (and that goes for most of the character using the DPM a lot in their game).Try a charge character, most of them like Chun Li, Guile ,boxer or dictator are the new SSF4 Sagats (but that’s not the place to discuss that and of course Sagat was more Imba on vanilla than any character on Super).


#20

I cant do it, honest to good. Sometimes i try to do it, and bam i get tiger shot. I still go for it, i dont care. And thats why i use charge characters primalrly.

FYI i fuck up the TS a lot to. Sad.